ulefone Armor.  There are a couple other models that have a 13200mAh battery.

I ran a Samsung S5 (?) like this many, many years ago and it was pretty cool but holy crap it was a beast. My jeans pockets started to stretch out from carrying it, and it was impossible to keep it in a jacket pocket at all.

What phone do you have that has a battery that big?

I think they would be perfect.  I was hoping they had a rom for my phone but I could only find one supporting a really old version.   If they partnered with Nokia to build supported images for their phones that would be incredible.

&gt;Or perhaps even set up a public community for phone hackers to help them build said image i.e. crowdsource the work.Like xda? :)

I use a FP4 in Canada and it&#x27;s been amazing. I suffer from a lack of parts, but I make up with that for excuses to vacation in Europe.

Oh, darn.  Well then maybe Nokia will read these comments and hopefully add some of my wish-list before it comes to the US.

Why do none of the good phone options get sold in the US??!? E.g. Sony has one of the few modern smartphones in a reasonable size (xperia 10II (might be the dumbest name though)), and way too few of the bands work in the American market.

You&#x27;ll still be waiting, I think. The Verge&#x27;s coverage says it&#x27;s not coming to the US: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;2&#x2F;25&#x2F;23611844&#x2F;hmd-nokia-g22-repairable-smartphone-ifixit-sustainability" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;2&#x2F;25&#x2F;23611844&#x2F;hmd-nokia-g22-re...</a>(I&#x27;ve similarly been wanting a FairPhone here.)

Honestly it would be a huge selling point for this device if it had excellent custom ROM support on top of the repairability. There are phones from 2015 still being supported today by Lineage.

Hopefully, the bootloader is unlocked for third party ROMs like Lineage and others

It fits in a velcro holster, my jacket pocket and in my snow monosuit.

10000mAh? Does it fit to your pocket?Btw degoogling phone almost double battery life.

I wonder how hackable this Nokia device is.I have an old Nokia smartphone. I barely use it as a phone; really it&#x27;s just for 2FA, when the provider insists on SMS for 2FA.An inexpensive Android device which is hackable and exposes GPIO pins would make an interesting robotics platform. If this device supports replaceable CPU, then perhaps it also exposes GPIO.

Nice! I&#x27;ve been waiting for something like the FairPhone to show up in the US.A sweet bonus would be if they also provided and fully supported de-googled image or at least had an option to download the de-googled image after accepting some disclaimers. Or perhaps even set up a public community for phone hackers to help them build said image i.e. crowdsource the work.An optional large shell for a bigger battery would be a nice upgrade too. My current phone has a 10,000mAh battery and lasts a very long time after disabling background networking on most apps.

Until someone builds an OS variant for it, you can use the UAD (Universal Android Debloater) found on Github to remove most of that.

It&#x27;s a hit or miss with them... my old Nokia 6.1 (ditto HMD) came with no option to unlock the bootloader.Based on some superficial Googling, this phone&#x27;s predecessor, G21 also comes without an unlockable bootloader.

are you sure it doesn&#x27;t? My low end &quot;nokia&quot; from HMD Global has an option to unlock the bootloader. Maybe this one does as well.

Do they seriously lock the bootloader of a &quot;repairable&quot; phone? That&#x27;s the most important feature for me, which has prolonged the life of all my Android devices by several years.

There&#x27;s no bloatware since Nokia&#x27;s Android is Android one. However, the bootloader is locked   and their Android&#x27;s EOF is abysmal which is crazy.

If you have a G20, your phone is probably already as repairable as this Nokia.  I&#x27;ve personally pulled apart a G30 and it was basically identical to the phone they showed in the article.

I have a G20, and it&#x27;s pretty vanilla Android stock.I&#x27;m actually excited for this. My family tends to shop in this price range, and you&#x27;ve got a lot of fairly interchangeable phones out there. It ends up being sort of frustrating because there&#x27;s no obvious right choice.Now you have a simple argument. You don&#x27;t have to deep dive explain to Mom the difference between CPUs or manufacturer update policies, just &quot;If this one breaks, it can be fixed without a huge production number.&quot;There was a time when one of the (admittedly secondary) arguments for buying an iPhone or Galaxy S (as opposed to a cheaper alternative) was that the local fix shops had a lot of dead scrap units and could arrange for a cheap quick fix, while if you bought a Nokia or Umidigi, you were waiting weeks for them to get parts and it was probably twice the cost because they didn&#x27;t want to work on a phone they weren&#x27;t wildly familiar with.

I imagine IntelliJ running on Archlinux from Nokia phone with wireless high-resolution glasses display

This will be nice if and only if there is a way to install a custom android version.Otherwise it&#x27;ll be bogged down with bloatware and will be useless as soon as security updates aren&#x27;t available anymore.But if so, very nice :)

That seems like the natural progression, if this model has any success.

This is excellent. However, I wish they released a more powerful version with the same repairability. I believe this would better appeal to the audience that values the repairability, as well as put pressure on other vendors to do the same.

The Nokia website only states 2 years of OS updates - so its e-waste from the beginning. What a joke
*EDIT: And 3 years of security updates

Though not for the firmware.
So it isn&#x27;t really comparable to stock support.Heck grapheneOS stops supporting devices shortly after google because they can&#x27;t really offer full security coverage.

If it gets popular enough on XDA, you can bet on another few years of updates from the community.- Sent from my Xiaomi A2 Lite (released 2018), currently running Android 13

Supported with updates for 3 years? So you&#x27;ll change the battery once, I guess.

Security updates are a must. Without them it&#x27;s not a usable device

I can&#x27;t tell if you&#x27;re being sarcastic or not.I have 5+ year old Android phones that have no issue with banking apps. I&#x27;m not sure where this rhetoric is coming from, but it doesn&#x27;t align with my experience on Android.Capital one&#x2F;wells fargo requires android 8+. Citi bank 7.1+. (I stopped looking it up at this point). 8 was released in 2017. So assuming 2 years of major OS updates, that means roughly phones from 2015 can still work with it.Also... even if the app stops working, you can use a web browser still.Phone batteries die off long before this becomes a reality.

If you&#x27;re using a banking app to do online banking, security doesn&#x27;t seem to be a priority in the first place. Or what is your banking app&#x27;s second factor for authentication? Fingerprint? On Android? On the same device you bring with you everywhere and use for surfing all sorts of websites?

Can’t you use web app tho? I only seen one bank that would limit features on a web app (I don’t understand why), but there are tons of banks out there nowadays, many digital ones with features where no traditional bank will ever even dream to implement.

I suggest you complain to your bank about it. If you can, maybe switch to another one if they don&#x27;t fix the issue.I know it sounds extreme, but it&#x27;s time to send the signal that it&#x27;s not ok to force people to throw electronics to landfill because of shiny new APIs.

Yes, I had to throw away my perfectly capable phone because my banking app refused to work at some point because the version of Android was too old and the phone stopped supporting newer versions of Android.Edit: not sarcastic, 100% serious.

I agree about it being impossible to solve the update issues with tech.There are too many benefits for the OEMs to dump phones on the market and not update. No reason to care otherwise so far, sadly.

They had their chance with Project Treble, and took the decision to make updates optional and not a requirement for Play Store contracts, so naturally nothing changed.The Android team is the one to blame, several times on Android Fireside sessions they have answered that they rather have the fragementation of the ecosystem where partners are allowed to experiment and come up with new ideas.Well one of the ideas is to sell newer devices instead of free beer upgrades, with Google&#x27;s complacency.I still rather be on Android, because even with them screwing up Sun and leaving it to implode, I like that they push a managed OS no matter what.Those that unaccept it and keep diving into the NDK with GL based UIs, always get a few scars in the process.

It&#x27;s the oems fault in this case. And they have no excuse. Google has modified the architecture of Android to make it possible for oems to update as quickly as possible, as well as all of the previous efforts to enable updating user-facing features without updating the OS. But it&#x27;s all still a kludge compared to iOS.The bottom line is I don&#x27;t think this is solvable with technology. Google should have gotten much tougher with OEMs once Android got widely accepted.

Also Pixels usually gets less official OS iterations than iPhones.Only nice thing on Android is the aftermarket ROMs since it&#x27;s AOSP. Sadly from my experience the aftermarket ROMs for newer OS iterations arent polished or miss features that the OEM roms had.

Yep, that&#x27;s the lifecycle of iPhones.I usually get the latest and greatest from work every 2 years. Then I pay a nominal fee to get it for myself (because of taxes or accounting or something).I get a new phone from the company, my old one goes to my SO. Their old one goes either to my kid or to mine or my SO&#x27;s parents, depending on which part of the lifecycle they are at.Can&#x27;t do that with Android, the 5-6 year old ones would be so bad and out of date that I wouldn&#x27;t want to be the one doing tech support for them.

Not to dismiss, but I have a pixel 3, still snappy, android 12. It was released 1 year after iphone 8 if I&#x27;m not mistaken, but still, it&#x27;s about ~5 years from today

Yeah my wife’s old iPhone 8 Plus still gets updates, still runs. Many of my android devices from that time are dead, no more updates, and&#x2F;or borderline unusable due to random android slowdown performance issues.In fact running across that old phone is what convinced me to switch.

Security is a complicated matter; you only realize you should have cared when it&#x27;s too late.

What Apple apps? I just went from an iPhone 10 (6 years old) to 14 last week and I didn’t have any change in my apps.

Though I&#x27;m on android 9? Five year old phone and while I&#x27;m not a power user nothing seems to care? Apple apps are much more picky of versions.

&gt; iPhones drag to a crawl after a couple of OS updates when the hardware is no longer up to the stuff of the latest iOS versions.Not really, and definitely not with more modern ones. I have an iPhone 11 from 2019. It was released with iOS 13. It is now running iOS 16.1.1. It is as snappy as the day I bought it. I&#x27;m considering a phone upgrade, but that&#x27;s because of the improved camera, not performance (or even battery life).My old iPhone 8 (2017) is still getting updates, and now is moderately pokey with nontrivial apps, but the OS is fine. And I get it with regards to apps, as the perf and battery improvements between the A11 and the A13 chips was pretty significant.

I was using an iPhone 10 with the latest iOS versions until last week and didn’t have any issues

Well I&#x27;m happy to have a bit slower phone to be able to use it fully for 7 years, with all security updates and current apps (again, with their respective security updates).Did you actually daily drive one? Because I did use an iPhone 6S for its full software support span (7 years) and yes, by the end of 2022 it was definitely the fastest kid on the block. But to run messaging apps, play music, grab quick pictures and scroll memes in the subway, it&#x27;s more than fine.

So you’d prefer a phone that has no updates, functional or security, to one that is slower? Because that’s the reality for functional updates after less than two years, and security after 3 for this phone. 7 major OS updates is over twice as long.Ok. Sure Jan. I think the majority will take that slow phone in a heartbeat.

After a couple of OS updates any iPhone is still faster than an average Android phone sold at the time.

They really don&#x27;t.IIRC, there was only one prominent case of that happening (slowing down noticeably), I think it was iOS 7 on the iPhone 4 but I might be wrong about that. And I think they fixed it a bunch in 7.1, so it wasn&#x27;t even for that long.But ever since then Apple really hasn&#x27;t pushed updates that slow the phone meaningfully. Instead they gatekeep new features to newer models that can support it, which makes sense.

My experience does not align with this at all. I&#x27;ve been using an iPhone XS for nearly 5 years. Other than wishing it had a more powerful camera, I haven&#x27;t felt the need to get a new phone at all. Sure, it&#x27;s not as snappy as my wife&#x27;s brand new iPhone 14 Pro, but I can easily live with it for another year or two.

iPhones drag to a crawl after a couple of OS updates when the hardware is no longer up to the stuff of the latest iOS versions.I only change phones when they die in some form, so 300 euros every 5 years on average is more than enough, I am not buying phones with laptop prices.I have anyway access to Apple devices via project assignments in consulting projects.

Certain models and only starting last year. So an improvement, yet still requires one do research.

My current Nokia phone has 3 years of support

that&#x27;s at least 3 years each using a phone with absolutely no security updates to network, wifi, cryptolibs, html&#x2F;js engine etc.not that iphone are any better. you have zero idea what you get on a new ios for old devices since the binaries are not the same. only thing you can be certain is the extra slow down loop

&gt; when they cannot install whatsapp or messenger or their banking app anymore.Hyperbole much? That&#x27;s a ridiculous claim. I&#x27;ve been sporting a &quot;renewed&quot; Samsung S10E since early 2021. There&#x27;s still nothing it can&#x27;t do. Prior to that I owned a Galaxy S7 since 2016! That&#x27;s a 5 whole years without any phone issues on an Android phone. I turned on the S7 a few months back and after an update, all the apps still work.

It will likely be running LineageOS (formerly Cyanogenmod) for a decade to come.

&gt; and some Motorolas I could never find in my countryHm? Writing this on g30 and Motos aren&#x27;t popular here for years.Edit: like I bought the cheapest Samsung last year and the experience is night and day.

Fairphone that&#x27;s mentioned in the article has 7 years of support (IIRC).Never used it though, my last 3 phones were all from Nokia. It&#x27;s pretty much the only manufacturer that still releases new stock (Android One) models regularly.(Excluding too-expensive-for-my-taste Pixels and some Motorolas I could never find in my country).

£149.99 with 3 years of software updates + repairable sounds good enough to me.

I am an iPhone user. Irrespective of software update, the device gets really slow at 3yrs mark, forcing me to change. So I do not know if supporting a phone software for &gt;3yrs is a good idea or just marketing.

Small to medium Android phone manufacturers need to team up and support a single ROM instead of maintaining individual flavors like this which only last for a few years.

&gt; It runs Android 12 and will be supported for three years of monthly security updates and two major Android version upgrades.And that&#x27;s why I stick to iPhones for long-lasting devices, those two major versions are a joke. Apple has the crown with seven on the iPhone 6S. When will someone make Android phones other than Pixels with non-abysmal software support? Yes, I know you can install alternate ROMs on your phone, but this is not what the general public does, especially with a phone at this price point. The average joe will definitely change his phone after three years when they cannot install whatsapp or messenger or their banking app anymore.That said, kudos to Nokia for entering this market, I genuinely hope it will be profitable enough for them to keep it up!

yes it does<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nokia.com&#x2F;phones&#x2F;nokia-g-22&#x2F;specs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nokia.com&#x2F;phones&#x2F;nokia-g-22&#x2F;specs</a>

I&#x27;m not sure if the physical volume of the phone in a landfill is the only issue to consider. What about all the energy and resources used to manufacture it?

&gt; Phones are a tiny amount of waste.Can you elaborate on that? Seems completely wrong to me.

&gt;but its still a lot of e-wastePhones are a tiny amount of waste. Trying to get a few extra years out of one is a microoptimization in reducing one&#x27;s waste output.

5 years for parts is better than nothing but its still a lot of e-waste. Ideally given screens and ports and batteries are something that have been around for decades and will be around for decades more in similar ways it would be nice to extend this out longer. With progress on CPUs&#x2F;GPUs slowing we do need to start to consider much longer usable life times for computer products and having obsolence built in at 5 years when a consumable like the battery fails isn&#x27;t OK.OS updates also very short so this phone is quickly going to end up on LineageOS.

This &quot;just&quot; needs a better screen and 50% more RAM and it would be quite competitive with $600 phones.

The Librem 5 is still on backorder as of today but is likely to reach shipping parity later this year.Not exactly top-tier hardware-wise. But the Librem is running a mainline Linux kernel, so it will have a decade or more of software support and security updates.

How about a high end phone now? I want a top tier device with sd slot and headphone jack and not a pain in the ass glued in everything

I had the worst customer support by Nokia. Purchased a Nokia 7 Plus in another country. The phone had a design issue which resulted in loose USB C port. Many people reported the same problem online. When I was back in the US, I tried reaching out to Nokia support and they literally said their repair center won’t even accept my phone for repair because I had purchased it in another country!Third party repair shops told me it takes $100 to fix the USB C port, almost 1&#x2F;3 the phone price. Needless to say I didn’t do that and the phone died shortly after only because it couldn’t get charged anymore. Switched to other brands and will never buy Nokia again.

Users can if there is a supply chain for them.Apple isn’t that bad, and being able to find parts for 10 year old devices and actually having nearly a decade of software support makes up for it.Ofc it would be better if they didn’t lock down parts further at least the screen and battery aren’t locked down yet.I replaced a screen on an iPhone XS not even a month ago with a £30 kit from Amazon that came with everything needed including a new liquid protection seal.Apple should definitely get flack what what they do but this pathetic attempt is just that pathetic this isn’t a way forward in any practical manner.If you really think you’ll be able to find parts for this phone in 5 years then well I got a bridge to sell you. And not for nothing it will turn into a paper weight after the 3 years of software support period will be over.

&quot;Encrypting&quot; parts also has to do with the black market for iPhones. If you steal someone&#x27;s iPhone, they can brick it remotely, so you can&#x27;t just resell it as a whole working device, so you part it out to a shady cell phone repair store who will reuse the parts and give you like fifty bucks so you can score your next bag of drugs. By embedding serial numbers on the parts, Apple stops this and makes the parts unusable, driving down the value of a stolen iPhone.

Users can order cheap parts from china just fine.The problem is with manufacturers. Encrypting parts, so simple part swap does not work. Or replacement screen for $300...Apple is really really bad when it comes to repairability!

Not they haven’t this phone isn’t anymore repairable than an iPhone it might be just a bit more serviceable.Users can’t do board or component level repairs, and Nokia isn’t making schematics, diagnostic software and access to low level firmware that will be needed to independently repair this phone available.User replaceable battery is nice, however every other component is reliant on a supply on parts being made available for the long run which is unlikely to happen since there will never be a healthy supply chain for niche devices.I’ve serviced multiple iPhones replacing a battery and broken screens with no equipment other than what came in the kit (and an hair dryer) and not the Apple one.Yes it’s a PITA but honestly they open easily with a hair dryer and a suction cup.What is far more important on the “right to repair” front is long term software support which the lack of bricks far more devices than any hardware failures, a healthy supply chain and not DRMing components.The former 2 is something that iFixIt always seems to ignore especially the first one the latter is something I that should be the focus of RtR legislation together with a guarantee for parts being made available for a period of X years from when the devices officially stop being sold just in the same way that car manufacturers and in the past appliance manufacturers were forced to.

In fairness though I had an android phone from 2014 with no gyroscope and it was a problem. Accelerometer, gyro, and GPS are all complimentary features that are used to keep each other calibrated. That phone was absolutely terrible in cities (NYC and LA) because the GPS would get confused by GPS signals echoing off skyscrapers, and all of a sudden it decides you&#x27;re randomly bouncing around 1&#x2F;4 mile going random speeds and directions. Navigation was unusable in dense cities.Going without a gyro or accelerometer is fine under normal conditions because you&#x27;ve got 2-of-3 so you can synthesize the output from the remaining sensor (my phone had synthetic gyro). But once you lose GPS fix you&#x27;ve lost your last degree-of-freedom and the only remaining sensor is the accelerometer, at which point the system goes into gimbal lock and the platform loses its fix.

I worked for a client in 2019 which wanted to make something similar to what Nokia is doing now.They wanted a barebones, no effort to catch up to top competitor phone, with more practicality, and everyday convenience in mind than putting in 10ghz CPU inside a phone.We went for a year, and bang... Google probably seen client&#x27;s PR, and banned Android phones without a superfluous gycoscope&#x2F;accelerometer&#x2F;etc stuff. We spent close to year on it.I was fuming.

Shame no compass or gyroscope, both of which I value. I hope the idea catches on though the toolkit looks suspiciously like ever other mobiles. Lift screen with sucker while prying with pick. Then unscrew battery and admittedly wrestle with glue... Still a way from the old fashioned, pop off the plastic back and lift the battery straight out in 20 seconds.

This depends on the phone having an unlockable&#x2F;relockable bootloader.

I don&#x27;t think Graphene OS will support anything else than Pixels and posibily in the future a custom phone made for Graphene OS[<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.androidpolice.com&#x2F;graphene-os-phone&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.androidpolice.com&#x2F;graphene-os-phone&#x2F;</a>]

If GrapheneOS could support this phone that would be a killer combo.

Sweet, $44 for an OEM screen is pretty good. Thank you Nokia. If there&#x27;s a de-google option, this would be the best.EDIT: 3.5mm headphone jack too! Wow.

This was very much the case a decade ago, when using an iPhone 3GS was a real slog by year 3 or 4, but is anyone still having those problems today?My daily driver is a 2018 iPhone XS, and it’s about as snappy with iOS 16 as I remember it being straight out of the box.

Are you sure it&#x27;s not just that the battery has aged after a few years? I&#x27;ve of heard many people (myself included) getting their battery replaced and saying their phone felt like new.

If you make a claim like this can you provide details?My anecdote: I&#x27;m using an iPhone XS that has seen 4+ years of use across iOS 12-16 (5 major versions) and I haven&#x27;t noticed any real consistent slowdowns. I&#x27;ve seen the occasional clear bug shipped where performance dips from time to time doing certain specific things, but these seem to be resolved upon the next update or two usually.

I felt this way with the 6 because it got downthrottled into the ditch with iOS-whatever, but my 5 (which I actually got after the 6 cause it, uh, accidentally broke) was a perfect phone its entire support life. I even kept it past Apple support limits and only left it when my cell carrier stopped working with it entirely.I think with newer ones, the OS updates are fine.

No. Your phone becomes damaged (DRAM and flash and performance problems due to battery) but the phone itself usually is fine.I just got a whole new phone out of a failed battery replacement for my iphone 8+ - my guess is the OS installation was just too damaged to accept the battery pairing process and it just flaked out, it was bootlooping and refusing to charge the battery. I got a refurbished 8+ in consideration, and it&#x27;s actually great despite being a 5.5 year old release at this point. It&#x27;s not the actual performance level of the phone itself that&#x27;s the problem, they just tend to become worn out at a hardware level and the phone tends to become unstable. It was showing all kinds of weird software quirks (discord &quot;send&quot; button would fail to appear when posting a meme despite the image being in the send box, and you&#x27;d have to tab back and forth to a different server before the &quot;send&quot; button would show up, etc) and all of that vanished as soon as I got a new phone.While I can&#x27;t prove it, my opinion is it would have come back over time even if I did a factory reset, perhaps even worse. Because I had the same experience with my previous phone, an Android Moto G first-gen (Falcon), which I owned for just about 5 years exactly (early 2014-early 2019). The phone simply got more and more unstable due to bad flash&#x2F;RAM and perhaps some glitching caused by the weak battery... first I&#x27;d have to factory reset once in a while, then the whole OS would need to be reflashed, finally the installs were being corrupted less than a day after a clean reflash.The practical lifespan of the DRAM&#x2F;flash in a phone seems to be about 3-4 years in my experience and by the time things hit 5 years they are so damaged they are unusable even after fresh OS installs&#x2F;etc. The timeframe is identical for both my Moto G and the 8+, I bet if I&#x27;d continued to use the same handset for another year it&#x27;d have started corrupting itself even after a factory reset&#x2F;etc. I don&#x27;t know why that would be - whether phones are writing certain flash cells too much and they&#x27;re burning out, or what. Obviously PC SSDs and DRAM can be fine for a decade.I am very onboard with some degree of refurbishment being a critical element of long-term phone repair after these experiences. They start to go janky at 3 years, by 4 years it is becoming a problem, and by 5 years it is unusable. Even with clean software installs (factory resets or OS image reflashes), it just is not stable. The Moto G I could write off as a fluke, it was a cheap phone to begin with, maybe it was just janky. The 8+ failing in the exact same ways on a very similar timeline (about 6-12 months later due to higher hardware quality) says to me that DRAM or flash is just wearing out over time. If it was just battery performance problems then it wouldn&#x27;t have failed to re-pair after a fresh battery was installed either.Again, now that I&#x27;ve got a refurbished 8+ in like new condition, I can tell you it&#x27;s still perfectly fine as a phone&#x2F;piece of hardware, it&#x27;s more than fine enough to run discord and apollo and gmail and banking and all the other things I do day-to-day. It&#x27;s not the hardware spec that&#x27;s the problem, it&#x27;s a particular unit becoming worn and failing.This also goes to show the importance of long-term software support... I have basically a new handset on 5.5 year old hardware. It will probably be 10 years old before I retire it. iOS is insanely good about that, I am still receiving full software updates at this point, although probably not for that much longer. Show me an Android phone with 6-7 years of feature updates, please. Most androids won&#x27;t even get security updates for half of that. That is what keeps the e-waste down. I&#x27;m sure my handset will be diagnosed and refurbished and sent out to someone else for replacement too, or sent to APMA region for those customers, the circle of life.I paid $725 for the phone originally (refurb) and $49 for the replacement, and I just got my third otterbox commuter for the replacement case, probably will kill a 4th one over the life of this handset too. So all-up I am expecting to be around $900 for all hardware expenditures for this phone for 9-10 years. Not too awful overall.

&gt; 2 or 3 years of updates are a joke, Apple does up to 8.Saying an iPhone can handle 8 generations of iOS updates is a bigger joke. I’m a cheapskate that somehow uses Apple phones, and I’ll let you know after 2-3 major OS updates the performance is always severely diminished.

And they hated him because he spoke the truth. Phones being disposable is something we just accepted. A POTS phone bought in the 1890’s would work without modification until the 1990’s and still will work today with an adapter. Why? Because we didn’t have continuous protocol churn. If it was invented today in 2 years there would POTS&#x2F;2, KETTLE, and a draft spec for POTS2.1 written on a used napkin but somehow already in production at Google.Our stuff turns to trash because everything is built on shifting sand with no thoughts given to supporting it long term and for some reason we like it this way.Do y’all not long for a future where you can get off the upgrade treadmill because the developer facing API is fixed? Not backwards compatible because that implies you ought to be moving to the next, like once it works you can call it done.But new shiny thing! Alright, that’s great. Is it so
much better that you want everyone in the world to throw away their old devices? Probably eventually but you’re daft if you think those kinds of events should be every few years. God can you imagine if we did that to cars? Sorry, Honda dropped support for your Civic, you can keep using it for a bit but in a year we’re gonna change the roads and it will be undrivable.

Psh 5 years? What kind of standard of quality is that?We should have several decades of support for all cheap electronics at least…

It&#x27;s unavailable in many markets. Even if one imports it, there&#x27;s a risk that it becomes unrepairable (or costly to repair) if it breaks.

Oneplus 11 ships with same support (5 years android updates + 4 years security updates)

And require me to throw away headphones that have worked fine for decades.Even this nokia phone has a 3.5mm port, why doesn&#x27;t Google support it anymore?

&gt; pixels starting with pixel 6 have 5 years of updates.Nice. Didn&#x27;t know this. Got a 7 pro shortly after it came out; spectrum had a $400 discount on them.

&gt; The real next innovation for an Android device maker will be providing at least 5 years of updatespixels starting with pixel 6 have 5 years of updates.

I expect manufacturers not to offer bad options like a 150  € phone with 3 years of updates. Give me a 200€ phone with 5 years? Or a 10€ service fee per year of updates.

At least 5 years of updates. So much so that I think it should probably be legally mandated and clearly marketed as the device&#x27;s life span.

I expect lifetime updates. I get that on my real computers: my Linux distribution doesn&#x27;t suddenly stop updating just because my computer is 3+ years old. Why should phones be any different? You&#x27;re telling me these trillion dollar corporations can&#x27;t match the quality of service of Linux distribution maintainers?

Its a 150 EUR phone, what more do you expect &gt;

Wish these chip makers would start playing nice with the Linux kernel already. They should me mainlining their drivers before their products are even releaaed.

When you optimize around something that&#x27;s more of an interest than a need, you get results that don&#x27;t make a lot of sense, like a stick-shift electric car. The Indian market has a legitimate reason for repairable phones, so they have a solution that makes sense in terms of cost and usability.

I&#x27;m happy about this! But, while repairability is always great, a major (maybe the biggest) part of phone obsolescence is due to software. 2 or 3 years of updates are a joke, Apple does up to 8.The best hope here is that this phone&#x27;s repairability will attract a software hacking community to provide inofficial updates, but what a terrible thing to have to rely on. Besides: Phones by other brands like Pocophone are plenty repairable, being made for the indian market, and have good community software support.The real next innovation for an Android device maker will be providing at least 5 years of updates (I&#x27;m well aware of the challenges involved, but these are not that hard, make it so).

Fairphone isn’t and probably won’t be available in North America, sadly.

What do you think about fairphone 4? 
According to web, it supports:
  Fairphone OS
   CalyxOS
   DivestOS
   &#x2F;e&#x2F;OS (Murena)
   iodéOS
   LeOS
   LineageOS
   postmarketOS
   Ubuntu Touch

Interesting decision about which one is the orange in this analogy :)

strange comment, comparing apples and oranges, and concluding your much more expensive orange is better for you... yeah I am not switch my Samsung s22 ultra for this neither, I find it very important to state this to the whole world because my own currently-utterly-unrealistic-to-beat set of reasons

Those are high standards? They basically said &quot;I want an open-source phone that actually works.&quot;

&gt; the lack of updatesThis is not a high standard in the year 2023.

For a device that markets itself as repairable, 3 years of updates is a bad joke. So it should at minimum have an open bootloader.My Samsung S10 5G is turning 4 in a few months, still receiving regular security updates.

You have high standards for a more simple and cheap product.

In fact there are versions of Android that run on the PinePhone like GloDroid, but it&#x27;s really not the goal.The goal behind efforts like the Librem 5 or PinePhone is not to create yet another Android phone, which Open Source or not will strengthen the Duopoly of Google and Apple in the Mobile Phone Operating System market. The goal is to create hardware that can jump-start the development of a true GNU&#x2F;Linux Mobile Operating System.With its real world use case, it has brought great advances to Mobile &quot;Desktop&quot; Environments like Plasma Mobile or Phosh by motivating developers who could finally use their creations and improvements on a real phone.

android is open source, nobody can answer me why the pinephone doesn&#x27;t use android insteadandroid doesn&#x27;t require google services to work

lack of updates and locked boot loaderThe boot loader will probably be unlocked sooner or later. It should be open, but I think it&#x27;s reasonable to expect either update support or unlocked booting, not necessarily both.In a gook device, that is. You have to remember that most consumers do not want to know how their phone works or to become expert in its configuration. They just want it to work.A compromise here would be to have an option to unlock everything, but with the understanding that by doing so you opt out of warranty service.Is your iPhone&#x27;s boot loader unlocked?

Not just that, but the pinephone camera is complete garbage. It&#x27;s basically a deal killer for many since we&#x27;ve grown to rely on our phone producing quality digital images and video. If they fix that and battery life you will draw enough developers to help make a reasonably decent mobile experience. But as it is now, there are few devices which have both adequate capabilities and driver support for it to work.Reducing cost and making it more repairable is a step in the right direction, but there is no reason why shouldn&#x27;t get 5-6+ years of life out of a mobile phone.

As other have noted, the lack of updates and locked boot loader make this a no go, but the state of fully open-source, non-Android phones OSs is likewise abysmal. As such, leaving the iPhone isn’t going to happen for me. I’m still using my iPhone 11, and it’s still nice and speedy, the battery is fine, it gets updates quickly, and generally doesn’t annoy me too much. If the PinePhone or PinePhone Pro had a solid, fully functional, open source, non-Android operating system that was also good with power management… I would switch without hesitation. That’s just a super high bar, and I don’t expect anyone to actually pull it off any time soon.

What I wonder is, is it open enough to do software defined radio and fiddle with the GSM infrastructure?Probably not, for that you need Nokia 1100 made in Bochum.

Largely depends on the market, where I am used iPhone 11 without major flaws costs little over 300 euros.

<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;browser.geekbench.com&#x2F;search?q=nokia+g22" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;browser.geekbench.com&#x2F;search?q=nokia+g22</a>It&#x27;s on the level of a 2017 Google Pixel 2. I mean not bad but it&#x27; also £150&#x2F;200€. For that much I&#x27;d rather get a used iPhone 11.

I never had a problem with a Note 4.The way you could buy cases that replaced the back cover meant for a much thinner profile phone than the typical metal case wrapped in silicone.Replaceable batteries are glorious. I never plugged-in my phone, just flipped the battery with one from the charger when I left the house. Instant 100% battery. Travelling? Just take a few charged batteries at a fraction of the weight of a power-bank and much more convenient.

My decades of experience with easily removable back covers tells me this is a complete non-issue.The back cover coming off accidentally has never happened to me.

Why can&#x27;t the back cover just screw on and off?How often do you need to replace your battery? Maybe twice in 4 years? What percentage of people keep a phone for more than 4 years? 5%?

The tradeoff is &quot;back cover that comes off in an instant, whenever you want it to&quot; versus &quot;back cover that comes off in an instant, even when you don&#x27;t want it to.&quot;

&gt; Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong?I suspect it is this: &gt; Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist.While companies do want you to buy the newest version every year or two, it is more likely that cost-benefit analysis tells them to build the way they build; they know they must release newer better phones periodically because the competition will do this also. But to support older phones has a cost, and at some point those old phones don&#x27;t generate enough revenue to justify the cost of supporting them.

You can’t think of another reason? Not maybe any of those mentioned in the thread?And then you can’t think of reasons for the downvotes?I see a pattern, maybe?

Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist.I and tens of millions other people used removable back cover phones for years before the sealed phone became the norm.Edit: Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong? I am genuinely interested.I really used user-removable battery phones for close to a decade. I found no issues.

&gt; Waterproofing is the main reason.Samsung Galaxy S5

Look up the Jiayu G5, from around a decade ago. They basically cloned the iPhone 5 and gave it a removable battery with a latching metal back cover.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;3dnews.ru&#x2F;assets&#x2F;external&#x2F;illustrations&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;25&#x2F;813712&#x2F;jiayu-g5-steel.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;3dnews.ru&#x2F;assets&#x2F;external&#x2F;illustrations&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;25&#x2F;8...</a><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobi-center.com.ua&#x2F;image&#x2F;cache&#x2F;data&#x2F;Jiayu-G5S-MTK6592-HD&#x2F;mobi-center_jiayu-g5s_mtk6592-octa-core-hd_5-500x500.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobi-center.com.ua&#x2F;image&#x2F;cache&#x2F;data&#x2F;Jiayu-G5S-MTK659...</a>

Wrong. There are plenty of waterproof devices with removable batteries. That&#x27;s the excuse given to take away your freedom.

Waterproofing is the main reason.But then thickness and aesthetic &quot;cheapness&quot; is a secondary one.A removeable cover and battery is always going to introduce a little bit of thickness, which on a thin phone is noticeable even if not major.And then whether you have screws or the ridges for removing the cover, it just always feels a little &quot;cheap&quot;. You can&#x27;t get the same kind of rounded smooth glass or aluminum backing that wraps seamlessly around the edges.And when people are comparing two phones in their hands, the one that feels more &quot;premium&quot; is often the one they&#x27;ll go with if they feel they&#x27;re already paying a premium price. This is an object they hold in their hand all day long. And if you live in a major city, it&#x27;s really not a big deal to get your battery replaced after 2 years at an Apple Store.

I actually prefer power bank to spare batteries.Spare batteries can only be used with the phone, whereas power banks are standard and usable with many other devices if needed.Also, small phone batteries usually don&#x27;t come with a carrying case. They&#x27;re fragile and you could accidentally short them.

With the Samsung S5, I’d take a couple extra batteries with me when traveling. Never had to worry about a dead battery or bother with a power bank.That phone was waterproof but had a special ridge around the back panel.

There&#x27;s a specific issue with young children eating button-cell lithium batteries, which I&#x27;m guessing is what your Garmin device uses. Australia appears to have a law requiring the battery compartments of such devices to be child-resistant.I&#x27;m not sure if any countries have similar regulations related to larger Li-ion rechargeable batteries.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.legislation.gov.au&#x2F;Details&#x2F;F2022C00445" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.legislation.gov.au&#x2F;Details&#x2F;F2022C00445</a>

Could be wrong (please correct me) but i recall hearing that allowing a customer to change a battery (e.g, 3rd party) on a chargable device can change the safety of the product&#x2F;UL rating or whatever, so it could simply be a certification thing.Not exactly the same thing, but I have a Garmin heartrate chest strap with a replaceable battery (no charging) -- in the US the cover swivels open to change, but in Australia it requries a screw, for child safety rules. I Thought that was interesting

Check out the Samsung XCover phones if you want that kind of battery swap.

&gt;Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery?This is one of the delights of the Moto z series phones because they have magnetic batteries that can be swapped on and off with your bare hands without even having to open up a battery cover or power off the phone.

Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery?Seemingly battery replacement can still be done &quot;in 5 minutes&quot; but this still makes pop-out&#x2F;on the road battery swapping unpractical.
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.trustedreviews.com&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;nokia-g22" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.trustedreviews.com&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;nokia-g22</a>

Just unglued my samsung to replace battery&#x2F;usb c. The mobile network does not work now. I guess getting something repairable is not a bad idea. Probably shorted, because you cannot disconnect battery without removing mid frame (and oh god that&#x27;s hard).

Ugly notch and no Linux... Not sure what the appeal is? I believe HMD sales tanked right after they introduced the notch (they aren&#x27;t Apple to get away with it) and this phone seems like a way to clear out unwanted displays via &quot;repairability fans&quot;.

Well it depends on which days you&#x27;re referring to! The 3360 was pretty easy to work on...Let&#x27;s bring back the glory days of Nokia phones that stand the test of time.

Nokia, what it once was, and where it’s playing at now.
They weren’t very friendly nor open back in the days, but time has its ways. Happy to see them do this now.

They used to make them. A manufacturing company from way back, they were the biggest manufacturer of phones from about 1998 to 2011.Now HMD make them, I think.

Did Nokia used to manufacture there own phones?Or have they always just done design - like Apple - and someone else manufactured them?

HMD Global, a Finnish company, currently runs Nokia&#x27;s phone business.

Nokia nowadays has nothing to do with the original company. The name was moved around, first to Microsoft, now it’s some Chinese company I think?

I applaud this initiative by Nokia, and can&#x27;t wait to lay my hands on one of those phones when mine dies, but let&#x27;s be real: it won&#x27;t be as tough as the 3310.

This seems like a Savvy move from Nokia. At least in my country, Nokia phones are remembered for the following:- nearly indestructible- well priced- back pops outNokia is doing the most sensible thing to reuse these as its differentiator.I understand people taking about the OS. But Nokia has little control over the software and it has also never been its selling point for me with Symbian, and later Windows Phone.I sure miss their wonky phones with weirdly arranged buttons and their random quirks.

This is pretty common on lower-end devices and I think the answer is  it looks more &quot;high end&quot; to they buyer.

Ask HMD, they made some boneheaded design decisions in the last gen, thinking they are Apple to get away with it. Their sales showed otherwise and now they probably need to get rid of components they bough in advance, so here comes a repairable phone.

Because LCD connectors require space. On phones where the bottom bezel is very small, the display is actually bent.

Why does it have a notch but a thick bottom bezel? I thought the point of the notch was so that you could make the screen cover the whole display? Why can they not just move the screen down a bit to get the bezel to the top, remove the notch and put the camera at the top?

Totally agree. But I would love a competitor. This smells like the start of one, if compromised by committee.

But your device is still perfectly usable after the last update. It will probably take at least 2 years before apps refuse to work on that version.By the way: In 3 days iPhone battery replacement price will go up by $20, not such a good deal anymore. I can buy a budget phone at this price point.

Time flies and 3 years update is nothing. Remember the beginning of covid days? More than 3 years ago. So if you bought this phone those days now it was in the garbage bin. I don&#x27;t want to spend time and effort to buy a phone every 2-3 years. Buy an iPhone, they replace the battery for you for $69 even after 3 years. iPhones are rock-solid and get 6-7 years of updates.

It&#x27;s IP52 rated, so not water-safe like the IP67 and IP68 from other smartphones. But it probably costs less to fix even so.

Unlockable bootloader? HTC Nokia hasn&#x27;t been permitting that so far.

Thank you for sharing, I&#x27;ll give it a tryUpdate: &quot;Lo sentimos, algo ha salido mal. Comprueba la dirección de correo electrónico y vuelve a intentarlo.&quot;

I can get notified with this link (in spanish, though): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nokia.com&#x2F;phones&#x2F;es_es&#x2F;nokia-g-22&#x2F;buy?sku=101S0609H002" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nokia.com&#x2F;phones&#x2F;es_es&#x2F;nokia-g-22&#x2F;buy?sku=101S06...</a>

Why doesn&#x27;t Nokia allow me to preorder or sign up to be notified when the device is released&#x2F;available in my market?A search for g22 on nokia.com yields zero (!!) results. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nokia.com&#x2F;search&#x2F;global&#x2F;en&#x2F;G22" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nokia.com&#x2F;search&#x2F;global&#x2F;en&#x2F;G22</a>I&#x27;ll be shopping for a new phone soon and am interested in this model. But wow, they&#x27;ve missed a huge opportunity to capture that interest and let me know when I can buy!

Apple seen backing up an all-new Brinks truck to Stephen Elop&#x27;s WindowsCE-themed garage...

Can you install your own OS on this device?

If you can&#x27;t update it to fix security flaws, it&#x27;s not repairable. Software and firmware updates is 100% a repairability issue, as is the ability to customize those things with your own patches.

I wouldn&#x27;t. It&#x27;ll explode in your pocket.

New phone does not mean the same model. New phone usually has more features and a newer version of Android.That’s how consumers usually think about the benefits of a new phone I guess. Very few people care about sustainability.

22.99 + 44.99 = 67.98149.99 &#x2F; 67.98 = 2.206So the new phone costs &gt;2x.Also, why do you need to replace the battery after 1 year, let alone the screen?

Perhaps close in absolute terms but still less than half the total price.I have never had to replace a screen before, but I have bought new batteries to replace on my own. An easily replaceable one would be nice.

According to these numbers the combined cost of replacing the battery and the screen is 22.99 + 44.99 == 67.98, which is less than half (~45.3%) of the cost of the original new phone. Comparing that to the market value of a used phone is a bit unfair, since screens and batteries drive the depreciation of used phones more than any other components (ignoring EoL timelines for OS security updates, etc), and in this example you&#x27;re getting new ones. Plus not everyone needs a new screen and battery every year.This definitely isn&#x27;t going to be for everyone but, for what they&#x27;re trying to do, IMO the numbers seem reasonable.

&gt; The Nokia G22 will cost from £149.99 shipping on 8 March with replacement parts costing £18.99 for a charging port, £22.99 for a battery and £44.99 for a screen.So, after a year of use the cost of replacing a battery and the screen will be close the market value of a used phone. A lot of people will go for a new phone.

User-scripts is what you&#x27;re looking for, commonly use to customize your browsing experience with small JS scripts. Can be run with for example TamperMonkey. Writing a script that blacks out or filters comments with a mention of Apple would be trivial (&quot;if .comment&#x27;s innerText contains Apple, $element.remove()&quot; in short)

I made an Ask HN post on this subject a while back. Got 10 upvotes before it got flagged and hidden. :)

I&#x27;ve been looking for a browser extension I could use to filter certain things out from my internet feeds. For example making anything related to Apple completely vanish for me. I wonder could the GPT be utilized for this?

I had an iPhone 4 many years ago, and Apple nerfed it with software updates when the iPhone 6 came out. These updates significantly slowed down the phone, pretty much forcing me to get a new one after only two years. So I bought an Android and never looked back.

&gt; The positive point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support duration.How so? Apple iPhones have one year warranties, are notoriously difficult to repair, and Apple charges an arm and a leg to &quot;repair&quot; them (usually by basically forcing you to do a trade-in and buy a new phone). Apple products will also quickly degrade over iOS upgrades.For example, my iPad Air 2 can barely browse the web with no other apps open.

&gt; I&#x27;m recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years (Galaxy S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on the Pixel 2 if not for lack of updates, as it&#x27;s still completely fine hardware wise. I guess if I had been an Apple fanboi, I would&#x27;ve had at least 1 fewer phones in that time period. Really made me think this last time.In regards to longterm OS support, iPhones have been getting better and better[1]. 6-7 years is pretty darn good for the last batch to fall out of support (6+, 7, and SE). It&#x27;ll be interesting to see when the next batch (8 and X) of iPhones falls off the cliff.---1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.statista.com&#x2F;chart&#x2F;5824&#x2F;ios-iphone-compatibility&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.statista.com&#x2F;chart&#x2F;5824&#x2F;ios-iphone-compatibility...</a>

I think I&#x27;ve had 3 phones in the time my wife has had 1 iPhone 7. Every time I buy a new phone I&#x27;m like &quot;but Android is cheaper&quot;, but I&#x27;m fairly sure the lifetime cost of &quot;phone&quot; is in her favour at this point. I think my next phone will be an iPhone.

&gt; The positive (and there&#x27;s plenty of criticism; search and read) point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support durationYup, and the OTA updates with Tesla are also better than you&#x27;d get on a car that&#x27;s 1&#x2F;10th of the price. Isn&#x27;t it just a little bit over-entitled to bring up any iPhone in a discussion about budget phones?Newsflash: the vast majority of the planet can&#x27;t afford to drop $1000+ on a mobile device.

Does that compete much against a $150-ish phone with 3 years of software support and super cheap, user replacable parts? I think it&#x27;s making excuses that the iPhone isn&#x27;t just a giant burning money pit for customers.  Why are folks in a completely different market segment comparing the two?

FYI you can get LineageOS 20 (Android 13) for your Pixel 2 with the latest updates: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xda-developers.com&#x2F;lineageos-20-google-pixel-2-adt3-bq-aquaris-x-nubia-android-13-custom-rom&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xda-developers.com&#x2F;lineageos-20-google-pixel-2-a...</a>

&gt; The point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support duration. This seems highly complementary to repairabilitySeems like you might call that “software repairability”

On the other hand I can still get modern versions of android with all the security updates for some ancient android phones, you just have to do a tiny bit of tinkering with unlocking the bootloader first. That&#x27;s something you can&#x27;t do with any iPhone.

To be clear, the Pixel 2 is unsecurable at reasonable performance against Spectre style attacks.Might not matter to some.

&gt; This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an entirely fair point, no?Repairability is more that once you buy it, you actually own it.Apple does not support this model. Real repairability is when you can hack all components of hardware and software in your domain (which precludes hacking against cell towers, ISP telecom equipment, etc.).

The positive (and there&#x27;s plenty of criticism; search and read) point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support duration. This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an entirely fair point, no?I&#x27;m recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years (Galaxy S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on the Pixel 2 if not for lack of updates, as it&#x27;s still completely fine hardware wise. I guess if I had been an Apple fanboi, I would&#x27;ve had at least 1 fewer phones in that time period. Really made me think this last time. Hoping my eventual 5th smartphone will have very long support and very good repariability.

People could compare the Nokia to comparable phones perhaps? There are other repairable phones available, although I don&#x27;t recall any this cheap?In other news my Ford is not as comfortable as your Rolls Royce, and my Sekonda watch is not going to last like your Rolex....

Since when has Apple ever made an easily repairable budget anything? This is a niche in which Apple is non existent.

The iPhone does not set any bar for budget phones. Irrelevant.

Right, when discussing any car, no discussion can possibly be good unless it includes the Tesla model s, regardless of budget or applicability.

Maybe I&#x27;m a luddite with my 2017 phone, but what&#x27;s meaningfully changed in smartphones in the past 5yrs that Apple is setting the bar on? (Besides pushing screens to the bezel, and the cameras multiplying)

Please don&#x27;t take HN threads further into flamewar. It&#x27;s tedious, not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a>

So just to be clear: you want to discuss a smartphone, in a vacuum, completely ignoring what - barring a few select Android phones - effectively sets the bar for the industry.It’s not “fanbois”, it’s just reality. HN isn’t the one that needs to get a grip here.

It&#x27;s worth noting that even if this phone is called &quot;Nokia&quot; it doesn&#x27;t have much to do with original Nokia phones. It&#x27;s a new company that bought the rights to use the Nokia brand name.

I just assumed the repair kit is for anything the Nokia is dropped on rather than the phone itself.

&gt; we overestimate how much people value right to repair.After all this time, perhaps it&#x27;s more stockholm syndrome?

&gt; And instead of talking about that, there are a series of threads about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is famously difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a grip! Can we not have a least one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in?I agree with your sentiment but think we overestimate how much people value right to repair. This is some proof.

Fawning over Apple products is inescapable here. Anything with a CPU must be compared to overly magical interpretations of an M1&#x27;s capabilities.

Probably there was enough people tired of fanbois. Even half of this thread is full of them.There&#x27;s at least weekly Apple worship thread on HN, about laptop speakers, icons they did 20 years ago or other largerly irrelevant thing, that Apple apparently did kinda well. It&#x27;s always full of people exclaiming that &quot;Apple is so ahead of competition&quot;.Really it&#x27;s face-palm worthy.

And instead, I join the comments, and the top-rated post is a counter-rant about Apple fanbois that&#x27;s frankly no more constructive or useful than the content it&#x27;s complaining about.

To be fair: “..and genuine parts available for five years via..”..but even so, it’s still a valid concern.

Yes, but is not only the right to repair. For how long Nokia is willing to manufacture spare parts for this phone? A year, two? What if after 3 year my phone breaks and I can&#x27;t repair it not because a repair issue per se but because of part availability. This already happened to me with a Nokia 7 Plus, which is a phone I like because it came with Android One. Now on the tech side, the phone is just fine, camera specs, screen is really good, battery is still good. I broke the charging board and the screen. Original parts for it no longer produced, only OEM ones with lower quality. So I would take this with a grain of salt. So will I need to buy the phone and immediately a pack of spare parts just in case because tomorrow they will be no longer available?

Wow HN. I really interesting new product comes out, a really interesting turn in the right to repair debate, and a return of a famous brand.And instead of talking about that, there are a series of threads about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is famously difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a grip! Can we not have a least one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in?

Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone