&gt; provides some protection.That&#x27;s security, not privacy...

Privacy it may be a plus since in theory notarization provides some protection.Speed, definitely not, this is going to make things slowwwww

I wonder what &quot;Developer Tools&quot; grants in practice. Clicking the (?) for viewing built-in help does not mention this particular setting, it skips right over it going from &quot;Automation&quot; above it to &quot;Advertising&quot; below it.

I don&#x27;t see it on macOS 10.15.4 (19E287). The full list of categories on my Privacy tab:<pre><code> - Location Services
 - Contacts
 - Calendars
 - Reminders
 - Photos
 - Camera
 - Microphone
 - Speech Recognition
 - Accessibility
 - Input Monitoring
 - Full Disk Access
 - Files and Folders
 - Screen Recording
 - Automation
 - Advertising
 - Analytics &amp; Improvements
</code></pre>
Granted I don&#x27;t typically use Terminal.app (iTerm 2 user), so I launched terminal and did some privileged stuff. Had to grant Full Disk Access to, say, `ls ~&#x2F;Library&#x2F;Mail`, but &quot;Developer Tools&quot; never popped up.Are you running a beta build or something?---Update: Okay, I checked on my other machine and that one does have it (Terminal is listed but disabled by default). What in the actual fuck?!?

Full Disk Access was added in 10.14 (2018), so it&#x27;s relatively new.

I&#x27;m using the Kitty terminal, and observed the script launch delay described in the blog post. After adding Kitty to &quot;Developer Tools&quot;, the delay disappeared. Thanks!

via <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lapcatsoftware.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;catalina-executables.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lapcatsoftware.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;catalina-executables.htm...</a>, I&#x27;ve added an entry in my &#x2F;etc&#x2F;hosts to block requests to api.apple-cloudkit.com:<pre><code> 127.0.0.1 api.apple-cloudkit.com
 127.0.0.1 *.api.apple-cloudkit.com</code></pre>

There are two new Security&#x2F;Privacy Settings that I just noticed last night.&quot;Full Disk Access&quot; to allow a program to access any place on your computer without a warning. A few programs requested this, so it looks like it&#x27;s been around for a while.The other one is &quot;Developer Tools&quot; and it looks pretty new. The only application requesting it is &quot;Terminal&quot;. This &quot;allows app to run software locally that do not meet the system&#x27;s security policy&quot;. So, my reading of this is that in Terminal, you could run scripts that are unsigned and not be penalized speed-wise.

It looks like it is done once by executable lifetime. Changing the content doesn&#x27;t cause it to rerun.

If you don’t trust Apple, don’t run a multi Gigabyte closed source OS they provide.

How could this possibly not be absolutely awful on projects that run hundreds of executables during their execution (e.g. some shell wrappers like oh-my-zsh call out to a large amount of different scripts every time they run).

I can confirm that executing a trivial script takes 20-200ms longer on the first run. Using 10.15.

not sure if I&#x27;m lucky or somehow I disabled something but the trivial script problem isn&#x27;t affecting me on any of my machines. I am using Homebrew for a large % of command line&#x2F;scripting so maybe that&#x27;s why?

Apple already has every iPhone user&#x27;s photos, messages, browsing history, keychains etc.Not sure how a list of installed apps is going to be worse than that.

Richard Stallman&#x27;s ideals have become a bit less crazy for me now...Either you have the ability to control the software, or it controls you

Is it even legal that Apple is retrieving this information?

I always wonder why people usually choose to neglect privacy issues about Apple.First, there was Apple scanning photos to check for child abuse[0] (that obviously got no attention on this site), then there was this one - Apple uploading hashes of all unsigned executables you run.Do people really accept that company&#x27;s &quot;privacy&quot; selling point?[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21180019" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21180019</a>, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22008855" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22008855</a>

Making this about speed is burying the lede. From a privacy and user-freedom perspective, it&#x27;s horrifying.Don&#x27;t think so? Apple now theoretically has a centralized database of every Mac user who&#x27;s ever used youtube-dl. Or Tor. Or TrueCrypt.

&gt; This is not just for files downloaded from the internet, nor is it only when you launch them via Finder, this is everything. So even if you write a one line shell script and run it in a terminal, you will get a delay!&gt; Apple’s most recent OS where it appears that low-level system API such as exec and getxattr now do synchronous network activity before returning to the caller.Can anyone confirm this? Because honestly this is just terrifying. I don&#x27;t think even Windows authorises every process from a server. This doesn&#x27;t sound good for both privacy and speed.

I find Linux to be a usability nightmare. Weird cut and paste behavior, difficult to resize windows, terrible trackpad support. macOS and Windows will have to get a lot worse before I switch.

It does depending on what software you want to run.There is no actually good alternative to Photoshop. gIMP is not remotely in the same league. Pixelmator and Affinity Photo are brought up but they&#x27;re also like nano vs emacs. Photoshop doesn&#x27;t run on Linux AFAIK. I&#x27;m sure for a graphic designer the same is true for Illustrator. The cheaper alternative exist and you can maybe get by but there&#x27;s missing so many features.If you&#x27;re into games there is really only Windows. Same for VR.I&#x27;m sure there are other categories.I did serious dev on Linux and that dev didn&#x27;t require any games or apps so it was great and I loved it. It ran my editor of choice and otherwise I only needed a browser and a terminal. But as soon as I step out of that small subset it&#x27;s pretty much MacOS or Windows only, at least for the things I want to do with my computer.

Without WINE, and it’s associated instability, which operating system, other than MacOS or Windows, would run Ableton, Logic Pro, Adobe Premiere, or Final Cut Pro, all applications I depend on for my income and, due to the fact that my clients use this software, for which an FOSS equivalent or alternative doesn’t exist?Now imagine the millions of other people in my situation and rethink your comment.

The set of possible operating systems to consider does not contain two items.

The other thread reply on this topic notes the reasons Linux is not considered a viable desktop replacement for many people.Personally I&#x27;d need to run a VM for a bunch of software or fight Wine. That&#x27;s assuming my machine has the right hardware support for everything and even then the trackpad support is likely to not be great.

&gt; it takes them years to turn around.or until they need something to throw out for investors. &quot;dark mode&quot; did not come about because of a technical breakthrough

At least 10.14 is supported for now.It&#x27;s really frustrating to see Apple make all these poor decisions and they almost never are willing to admit their mistakes and go back. In the rare case when they do (e.g. butterfly keyboard, Mac Pro), it takes them years to turn around.

That has been my view as well. It isn&#x27;t Apple that is particularly good with anything Software ( I will give them they have an Edge in UX ). But Microsoft is just horribly bad every time I look at it makes macOS looks good.

If Microsoft wasn&#x27;t doing ever worse privacy things with Windows I&#x27;d seriously look into switching away from Mac OS given the ever growing issues it&#x27;s been having with every release.

Notarization&#x2F;stapling&#x2F;etc. is for distribution only, not generally part of your dev workflow.

An update: flat out denying network access to syspolicyd using Little Snitch could cut down on the delay. (Yes, syspolicyd does send a network request to apple-cloudkit.com for every single new executable. Denying its access to apple-cloudkit.com only isn&#x27;t sufficient either since it falls back to IP address directly.) Note that this might not be a great idea, and it still has nonzero cost — a network request has to be made and denied by Little Snitch.Here&#x27;s my benchmarking script:<pre><code> #!&#x2F;bin&#x2F;zsh
 tmpfile=$(mktemp)
 cat &gt;$tmpfile &lt;&lt;EOF
 #!&#x2F;bin&#x2F;sh
 echo $RANDOM # Use a different script each time in case it makes a difference.
 EOF
 chmod +x $tmpfile
 setopt xtrace
 time ( $tmpfile )
 time ( $tmpfile )
 unsetopt xtrace
 rm -f $tmpfile
</code></pre>
If your local terminal emulator is immune with &quot;Developer Tools&quot; access (interestingly, toggling it off doesn&#x27;t bring back the delay for some reason), you should be able to reproduce the delay over ssh.

I mean, when I’m developing in a compiled language with the workflow edit code -&gt; compile -&gt; run (with forced stapling), changing it to edit code -&gt; compile -&gt; staple -&gt; run doesn’t make it any less slow...

Putting Terminal (and your favorite text editor) in this category and in &quot;Full Disk Access&quot; will change your life.

So since these permissions apply to process trees, what happens if you put launchd in there?

Reminds me of the AV exception folder our corporate IT created for developers. Soon absolutely everything developers needed or created was installed into that folder. Applications, IDEs, you name it.

GateKeeper only triggers the check for things downloaded from the internet.
IOW, it checks if your binary has a quarantine flag attached via an extended attribute.

Can you advise on how to make the &quot;Developer Tool&quot; panel in &quot;System Prefs, Security, Privacy&quot; appear if it is not present? Cant find a way: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;60176405&#x2F;macos-catalina-developer-tools-tab-is-hidden" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;60176405&#x2F;macos-catalina-...</a>

How do I get a &quot;Developer Tool&quot; pane in System Prefs? Do I have to install X-Code? I would really rather not

Xcode (the UI) is able to bypass GateKeeper checks for things it builds.The &quot;Developer Tool&quot; pane in System Prefs, Security, Privacy is the same power. Drag anything into that list you&#x27;d like to grant the same privilege (such as xcodebuild). This is inherited by child processes as well.The point of this is to avoid malware packing bits of Xcode with itself and silently compiling itself on the target machine, thus bypassing system security policy.

The Gatekeeper behavior is specific to running things from Finder (not Terminal), and only if you downloaded it via a browser that sets the com.apple.quarantine xattr.Two posts from Apple dev support (Cmd+F &quot;eskimo&quot;) describe this in more detail.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.developer.apple.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;127709" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.developer.apple.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;127709</a><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.developer.apple.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;127694" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.developer.apple.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;127694</a>

&gt; The way to avoid this behavior is to staple the notarization ticket to your bundle (or dmg&#x2F;pkg)Maybe in some cases, but the article says &quot;even if you write a one line shell script and run it in a terminal, you will get a delay!&quot;Shell scripts don&#x27;t come in bundles. I don&#x27;t think this kind of stapling is possible for them? I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;d be reasonable to expect users to do this anyway.

I&#x27;m confused. does macbook send executable to apple servers or just the hash?

The way to avoid this behavior is to not buy a machine from a company that actively hates it&#x27;s users.

&gt; a degraded user experience, as the first time a user runs a new executable, Apple delays execution while waiting for a reply from their server.The way to avoid this behavior is to staple the notarization ticket to your bundle (or dmg&#x2F;pkg), i.e. &quot;&#x2F;usr&#x2F;bin&#x2F;stapler staple &lt;path&gt;.&quot; Otherwise, Gatekeeper will fetch the ticket and staple it for the user on the first run.(I&#x27;m the author of xcnotary [1], a tool to make notarization way less painful, including uploading to Apple&#x2F;polling for completion&#x2F;stapling&#x2F;troubleshooting various code signing issues.)[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;akeru-inc&#x2F;xcnotary" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;akeru-inc&#x2F;xcnotary</a>

... Can you elaborate? I use IntelliJ on a daily basis on Catalina, and I have zero issues updating it.

Beats me - it&#x27;s a common problem, though: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;40251201&#x2F;upgrading-intellij-idea-after-sierra-upgrade-does-not-have-write-access-to-pri&#x2F;41383566#41383566" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;40251201&#x2F;upgrading-intel...</a>. The only thing that ever worked was uninstalling and reinstalling the whole thing.

Why do you need access to the areas protected by SIP?

The latest IntelliJ 2020.1.1 works out of the box on macOS 10.15.4, without disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP).Whatever problem you&#x27;re having, it&#x27;s a problem specific to your machine.

I agree: use Jetbrains Toolbox.A few months ago I installed Rider (an IntelliJ-based IDE) on my Mac without toolbox, and upgrading it was a pain. I don&#x27;t remember the details, but using JetBrains toolbox makes upgrading as simple as clicking a button and waiting until the download &#x2F; install is complete.

I use and upgrade IntelliJ fine. Install Jetbrains Toolbox and everything is installed in your home dir. What kind of locations are you having troubles with?

I can&#x27;t upgrade IntelliJ any more, because it&#x27;s trying to write to privileged file locations that I (the owner of the computer) no longer have access to.  Believe me, I&#x27;ve tried to work around this, macOS has it locked down completely.

Reminds me of the terrible delay I faced after having Sophos installed on my Mac.Having to wait 5-10 seconds for a new terminal tab as Sophos churns (checking autoccomplete scripts, rbenv, etc) was infuriating. Oddly, there was fate sharing with Internet interception, so there was a good chance the browser was getting dragged down too, and vice versa.Convincing corporate IT of how bad the problem was was maddening. Based on what this author says, 10.15 on rural internet sounds like hell.

Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn&#x27;t improving.Curious: what have you tried? People who use &quot;Linux&quot; as a catch-all in terms of UX usually have only tried a single distribution with a single desktop environment.

&gt;&gt; Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experienceTry Pop_OS!. I switched from macOS and it&#x27;s been a relatively painless experience with some tweaks.

Linux has been a delight to use for me. Things were rough 10-15 years ago, but it&#x27;s pretty amazing now.

I think the fact is there simply isn&#x27;t a solution that works for both the &quot;layperson&quot; and highly technical people who want to do development. Laypeople cannot be trusted to admin their machines, but experts need access to those bits. Leaving a backdoor to real admin access for the experts just means laypeople will abuse those backdoors and mess up their machines again, with dire consequences for the entire planet. You see the same problem with power user UI features vs dumbing down for phones and average users. People keep trying to bridge this divide and I&#x27;m just not sure it can be done.

I happen to enjoy using linux on my laptop. In fact, I think it’s pretty great. But that’s because I can customize it to work the way I want—something that I found hard or impossible to do back when I was using MACOS.

The funny thing is, Linux has amazing User Experience if you go all-in on the latest KDE and its associated tooling.

I’m pretty sure that you have never use linux ...
Just try it

If you add &quot;unfixable&quot; to &quot;disaster&quot; the problem becomes more clear.Windows is a unfixable disaster, you can&#x27;t fix it sorry.Mac OS is now an unfixable disaster, you also can&#x27;t fix it sorry.Linux may be a UX disaster, but you can, uniquely, modify it. You can change your UI. You can attempt to fix the problem, and have a real shot at doing so.Linux is the only one where you can do something about the problem - which is a strong reason to prefer it.

&gt; Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn&#x27;t improving.Nonsense, &#x27;Linux&#x27; can be what you make it. You can have it as sleek as something straight out of the fruit factory or as spartan as a VT100 and anything in between. If you&#x27;re new to the game the pre-packaged &#x27;consumer&#x27; distributions might be a good starting point but for those with a bit of nix savvy - of which I assume there to be many on this board - those bells and whistles probably just get in the way.If my 8yo daughter and my 82yo mother can use Linux - the latter through a remote X2go session from her kitchen table in the Netherlands to my server under the stairs in Sweden - I&#x27;d say people around here can be assumed to be able to handle it. The nice thing about &#x27;Linux&#x27; is that you can change out those parts which you find disagreeable for whatever reason for those you like better, this in contrast to that last bastion of somewhat good, thoughtful design, user experience and attention to detail* which by your own statement has been changed into excrement. Just take out the shitty bits and replace them with something better... oh, no, not possible...That is why the parent poster is right in this sense, things in &#x27;Linux&#x27; land might not be perfect - and can never be &#x27;perfect&#x27; since one person&#x27;s perfection is another&#x27;s nightmare - but at least you get to do something about it.

&gt;Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn&#x27;t improvingI&#x27;m honestly pretty baffled as to what keeps this meme alive, as KDE and GNOME are both very popular and provide simple, intuitive interfaces for the typical user. Plasma is only complex if you&#x27;re the type that really wants to customize, but there its complexity is (mostly) necessary for its wide range of possible configuration. People have this idea that desktop Linux users are all a bunch of dorks playing around with Arch and tiling window managers all day and then posting their anime wallpaper setups on &#x2F;r&#x2F;unixporn, but that hasn&#x27;t actually been true for a long time.

I hate bloated OSs and unfortunately Mac OS is one of them. I know how everyone wants everything to work out of the box and I know it&#x27;s very natural to want so but I cringe if I find out my OS doing something behind my back. That&#x27;s why I&#x27;d never use Windows, Mac OS, Ubuntu, etc. They all violate my privacy and slow my system to do so.I use Debian, I like Debian. When I run Wireshark I don&#x27;t see unknown requests destined to debian.com. That is the definition of simplicity for me. And yes, it doesn&#x27;t always work out of the box, you have to install some drivers, change configurations but it&#x27;s getting better and easier. Yet, I&#x27;m a software developer so I understand and like that stuff.&gt; Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn&#x27;t improving.No, you can&#x27;t define it as a disaster, it&#x27;s not. If you&#x27;re an end-user that understands nothing of computers maybe you can but otherwise it&#x27;s not a disaster. It&#x27;s just harder and getting easier by day.

&gt; I am so glad I decided years ago to leave closed operating systems behind.The problem is, there&#x27;s nothing else out there. Everything is going to shit in one way or another. Windows is now a disaster, Linux was always a disaster in terms of user experience and isn&#x27;t improving.Mac OS was the last bastion of somewhat good, thoughtful design, user experience and attention to detail and now they&#x27;ve gone to shit too.

Might want to make it a used&#x2F;refurbished Mac. Newer Macs don&#x27;t run Linux well (at least as of yet); the whole T2-chip based stuff on newer machines is especially problematic.

Buy a Mac and put ElementaryOS on it to avoid the slowdown and have a slick experience.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elementary.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elementary.io&#x2F;</a>

This is completely insane. I am so glad I decided years ago to leave closed operating systems behind.This design seems to cement the trend at Apple to position their products as consumer appliances, not platforms useful for development.

Which makes a mockery of the whole security angle - how can this be utterly essential for security while connected and then just tossed aside as optional as soon as you exit Wifi range? It can&#x27;t be both.

The article says &quot;One way to solve the delays is to disable your internet connection&quot; so I assume it just doesn&#x27;t bother with notarization when you do that.

Hopefully you&#x27;re also less likely to get new unsafe binaries when disconnected.  But it&#x27;s all still awful.

&gt; One way to solve the delays is to disable your internet connection.I think it just skips the checks if internet isn&#x27;t available. But doesn&#x27;t that kind of defeats the point of notarization?

That doesn&#x27;t help with self-written code, however, since you can&#x27;t notarize without internet either.

The linked website isn&#x27;t loading, so I don&#x27;t know what it says, but: if we&#x27;re talking about notarization, you can &quot;staple&quot; the notarization to a .app or a .pkg, which means you don&#x27;t have to do the internet lookup at all, and you can run the apps without having access to the internet. I&#x27;m not sure about the technical details, but I would assume you add some sort of signature that&#x27;s like &quot;This .app with hash X has been notarized and it&#x27;s fine&quot; signed by Apple&#x27;s secret key.EDIT: how to staple: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;documentation&#x2F;xcode&#x2F;notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution&#x2F;customizing_the_notarization_workflow#3087720" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;documentation&#x2F;xcode&#x2F;notarizing_m...</a>

&gt; If it checks with Apple servers every time you execute a new binary, what happens if you don&#x27;t have an Internet connection? Are you just unable to run new code?It waits 5 seconds while trying to connect, and then it gives up and caches the program as un-notarized, allowing it to run faster on later executions.Notice that notarization seems to be disabled if the network is disabled from within the OS. To observe the 5 second delay you need to cut the connection outside (e.g., on your router), while the mac still thinks it is connected. I observed it by running catalina inside a virtualbox, and disabling its network.

If it checks with Apple servers every time you execute a new binary, what happens if you don&#x27;t have an Internet connection? Are you just unable to run new code?

Damn, I too have noticed that when developing in compiled languages (C, C++, Go, Rust, what have you) the first execution after a recompile is always noticeably delayed. I thought it was odd but didn’t bother digging into it. This must be why! (Can’t recall having this problem with scripting languages, but maybe subsequent modifications don’t trigger a notarization check? Edit: Yeah TFA does mention this.)

I understand the purpose of notarization but I feel like they could&#x27;ve come up with a much better solution to this. A network call __everytime__ someone runs an executable is not acceptable. But for the cases where the user is offline, Apple must keep a list of notarized apps on the machine...

The UX is good. Freedom has always been a little more subtle.

You should know by now:Apple is the Father, Apple is the Mother.After Apple has re-invented or re-written the MSFT playbook of the 90s, nothing surprises me anymore.Yet I cling to these machines, that take away the freedom to do with my hardware as I please. It&#x27;s odd.

I actually prefer the App Store approach because that way the majority of my updates are in one place and can be done automatically in the background. The problem is that it used to work fine and they managed to break it.

This one drives me nuts. I mean what in the hell is that downloading doing that it manages to fail arbitrarily. This is downloading files, how the fuck can it be so complicated and broken.

<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xcodereleases.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xcodereleases.com&#x2F;</a>

Re: downloading Xcode, this page has saved me hours: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;10335747&#x2F;how-to-download-xcode-dmg-or-xip-file" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;10335747&#x2F;how-to-download...</a>. It&#x27;s just a list of direct links to each version of Xcode at apple.com. Mystery why Mac App Store downloads still can&#x27;t be bulletproof after all these years.

Forcibly relocated to a refugee camp tent with leaking water pipes next to your air mattress. But at least everything around you in your tent is white, flat, and material and your coffeemaker works.

I install new versions of Xcode about every two weeks on average. The amount of time it takes to have a new Xcode running is at least an hour: first you download a massive XIP, then the system &quot;verifies&quot; it forever when you try to open it, then it takes forever to unarchive because it&#x27;s huge, then you need to copy it from ~&#x2F;Downloads to &#x2F;Applications which takes another couple of minutes. Then you hit the component installation part… (I think this step has something to do with installing new MobileDevice frameworks?)

&gt; I&#x27;ve been forced to update to this pile of shit because latest iOS requires latest Xcode which in turn requires Catalina. It&#x27;s a nightmare.I&#x27;m literally halfway there as I type this, Xcode &#x27;installing components&#x27;. Having to upgrade essentially everything just to get the right dev tools for the current iOS is madness, feels like buying a new house to fit the new coffeemaker...

There&#x27;s a lot more non-determinism in a modern MacOS install than you imagine. &quot;WFM&quot; doesn&#x27;t invalidate the anecdote to which you reply. TFA is about putting network requests in system calls ffs.

What makes you think that your experience is the typical one? I&#x27;ve had these problems as well and so have a lot of people I&#x27;ve talked too. Obviously that&#x27;s just more anecdotes and doesn&#x27;t prove anything but neither does your comment.

I&#x27;ve just tried connecting to my external monitor again and 10 seconds is exactly how much it took - no exaggeration there. The internal monitor goes blank for 1 or 2 seconds, then both monitors turn on and it takes another ~8 seconds for the UI to adjust and the windows to be moved to the proper place.&gt; you consider usb-c brittle?!?It&#x27;s much easier to unplug USB-C than HDMI or DisplayPort, for one. USB-C itself is a terrible mess that requires an engineering degree to figure out what&#x27;s compatible and not, and maybe it&#x27;s just me and I have a shit hub but I had an external hard drive crash midway through a file transfer due to power issues despite being powered by a Apple charger (the hub and all the peripherals went dark and the laptop stopped charging, then started cycling on and off where every time the drive tries to start up again it kills everything).

OP is a typical Apple &quot;You&#x27;re holding it wrong&quot; reaction. It&#x27;s never Apple&#x27;s fault when its OS doesn&#x27;t work right - it&#x27;s always the user&#x27;s fault. Despite the user paying a premium for Apple, or Apple having control over hardware its OS works with.

Have you actually done anything to try and fix these issues? Because this is not typicalI use 1password and it doesn&#x27;t take 5 seconds to open. Did I accidently install linux or something? because since it&#x27;s the OS causing your delay it would be causing me to have the same delay.xcode installs just fine for my entire team. Just did the update myself, worked just fine.I plug into a dock and undock constantly during the day, and while it could be quickinger, 10 seconds and flickering is NOT my experience.and what the fk are you doing to your connections that you consider usb-c brittle?!?

I also upgraded days ago, assuming they would have had time to fix the bugs. However, I can say the USB-C external screen flicker was plaguing me before the upgrade and hasn&#x27;t gotten worse. Turning off hot corners, oddly, helped, although the problem hasn&#x27;t gone away.

I don&#x27;t share your issues with Catalina [1] but I have to agree Podcast app&#x27;s UI design is very strange. The primary interface should be the &quot;Episodes&quot; tab.Just like Twitter&#x27;s UI, app developers think they know what content is best for you with a &#x27;feed&#x27; or &#x27;featured&#x27;... they&#x27;ve completely abandoned chronological ordered lists of content unless you click 2-3 buttons.[1] Catalina has been painless for me, not sure why my experience was different than everyone else

&gt; The Mail app will now randomly play the &quot;new mail&quot; sound.It’s not quite random: it plays the sounds as it gets new email, but then it takes anywhere between a couple of seconds to a minute for the new email to be visible in the UI. Infuriating.&gt; Xcode was stuck upgrading in the App Store. It would start the process and never make any progress. Cancelling it had no effect. Rebooting cancelled it but the second attempt, while making progress, ended up failing with a generic error message with no actual information.I just normally kill the store-related daemons when that happens.

&gt; My one remaining serious annoyance is that my external monitor color settings are screwed upCould it have something to do with Night Shift? Have you tried enabling and disabling it and see if it fixes that?

I have this issue constantly, even the laptop screen itself will get &#x27;washed out&#x27;. The solution is to go to Displays &gt; Colour Profiles and change the profile to any other one and then change back to the default.

I&#x27;ve had a similarly painful experience upgrading last week. Though it doesn&#x27;t seem quite so bad as the posters above, and after making a few fixes most everything is back to normal.My one remaining serious annoyance is that my external monitor color settings are screwed up and there appears to be no fix. Reds are purple and everything is just a little washed out, which is a shame for a 4k monitor that was beautiful with Mojave.Strangely, right before the computer restarts, or if booted in safe mode the color starts to look perfect again, but I can&#x27;t seem to replicate that in normal operation.

If WSL turns out to be insufficient, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;multipass.run&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;multipass.run&#x2F;</a> is worth a look.

Our help desk is wise enough to keep existing mac users on the oldest supported macOS version; but inevitably at some point in the future they&#x27;ll have to roll out the latest version. This will be the week when I will exchange my macbook for a Windows 10 ThinkPad. A lot of our dev teams have moved to this setup alreay using WSL or a VM for Linux if really needed  and it has been really smooth (our helpdesk staying on top of the Active Directory and Windows Update management game also).

Since Steve left us, over time I&#x27;ve witnessed so many issues crop up in the Apple ecosytem, for users&#x2F;customers and developers, and it&#x27;s clear that there&#x27;s nobody to be shit-scared of anymore at Apple.So many recent things would have pissed him off.There&#x27;s no way the &#x27;notch&#x27; would have appeared. Nor the fact that the iPhone camera design stopped the device sitting flat on a surface.

They don&#x27;t give a shit if you&#x27;re not using an Apple monitor. Witness the ProDisplay, which doesn&#x27;t even have a power button, and talks to the computer to turn on.

I share almost all of these issues. What drives me super nuts is the multi-display support which NEVER &quot;just works&quot;.I have to disconnect and reconnect USB-C 3 times, turn off the second monitor, switch inputs, restart the €3000 machines twice or whatever. So annoying, how does this pass QA at all?Also, don&#x27;t setup and use multiple users at the same time. That&#x27;s really messy as well.

Your experience certainly sounds bad, but none of this is normal; mail sound, USB-C cable brittleness, 1password slowness, all of it works nicely for me.

I&#x27;ve been forced to update to this pile of shit because latest iOS requires latest Xcode which in turn requires Catalina. It&#x27;s a nightmare.First off the new apps (music, podcasts, etc) are terrible. They killed off iTunes but replaced it with much worse. These apps don&#x27;t behave like standard macOS apps, the UI is full of inconsistencies and is just so empty. This website has nice examples of the failures of modern Mac OS: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;annoying.technology" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;annoying.technology</a>For some reason after updating the &quot;new updates&quot; badge was stuck on the system preferences icon (and even on the preference pane itself) despite no updates being available. I ended up having to delete a plist and reboot to fix it, apparently a common issue.The Mail app will now randomly play the &quot;new mail&quot; sound. I can&#x27;t confirm it for sure but I&#x27;m assuming it&#x27;s treating read, existing mails when they are moved to the trash&#x2F;archive or newly created drafts. They screwed up the mail app, a problem that has been solved for decades. WTF? The worst is that I see no major changes in there, so why touch the mail client in the first place if you&#x27;re not even going to give me additional features in exchange?Xcode was stuck upgrading in the App Store. It would start the process and never make any progress. Cancelling it had no effect. Rebooting cancelled it but the second attempt, while making progress, ended up failing with a generic error message with no actual information. Logs are useless because they&#x27;re being spammed by all the background processes even during normal operation making it impossible to find anything. Finally the third attempt succeeded.1Password now takes 5 more seconds to unlock my password database. Somehow this disgrace of an OS slowed down the password hashing process by an order of magnitude.Switching screen resolutions or connecting to an external screen takes a good 10 seconds of flickering and frozen UI before everything starts working again. This is now actually worse than both Windows and Linux. I dread moving the laptop or touching the USB-C cable (also because USB-C is so brittle) when it&#x27;s connected to an external monitor out of fear that it&#x27;ll disconnect&#x2F;reconnect and I end up in a 30-second cycle of flickering.I upgraded a couple of days ago, so those are not early bugs. Apple had a year to fix all of this. The Xcode thing might be an isolated issue but there&#x27;s no excuse for the general performance penalty or the stuck update badge which has many hits on search engines suggesting it&#x27;s a widespread issue.

Still doesn&#x27;t give you a programming environment, unless you want to do bash.

If that’s what you really want, grab a used ThinkPad and put Arch Linux on it. It will boot in a few seconds and is much more powerful than a Vic-20.

I call this &#x27;Outsourcing the cost of development to the user&#x27;...Getting knowledgeable people costs money so we build more abstractions that lower the cost of development and pass the costs of development from the company to the user in the form of requiring more hardware to do the same thing.How come I need 16Gb of RAM these days when 8Gb did it yesterday? How come my phone needs 4Gb of RAM while my 2012 tablet had 1Gb? Sure the hardware is cheaper but we&#x27;re still not using the hardware to it&#x27;s fullest.

Are you on a hard disk drive? I have bestowed upon myself the unique misfortune of running Windows 10 on a spinny disk.

I switched to a linux desktop full time last week because of this exact problem. VPN w&#x2F; windows would flake out on me all the time, and I got sooo tired of just...waiting. Remember when windows search worked? Like, you could press the windows key, type what you were looking for and find it? Quickly?Being able to turn the computer on, type in my password and have it be just..ready is so incredibly refreshing. Having a terminal with 0 latency, where copy&#x2F;paste is sane? Worth a zillion dollars to me right now.Currently playing with opensuse tumbleweed, i&#x27;ll probably get frustrated by something and move to arch, so I can fix that something and also be frustrated by a hundred other things.

I remember being able to watch network traffic and if you (or some other actual person on you network) weren&#x27;t doing anything nothing would be there. Yes even if you had a few webpages open but weren&#x27;t clicking anything. Now your machine&#x27;s &quot;idle&quot; and you capture on your network interface and it scrolls at hyperspeed.

&gt; It seems utterly insane that in the early 90&#x27;s I could just run Windows 3.1 on a bit of kit that in all likelihood wouldn&#x27;t even power a toaster today, and the experience was, well, frictionless. I don&#x27;t recall ever thinking &quot;wtf is this thing doing?&quot; ...I generally agree, but I sometimes ran Windows 3.0 on a 386SX-16 in the early 90s, and often wondered why it ran so slow on my admittedly underpowered but supported system.At some point I read (perhaps in Compute! or BYTE) that Windows made something like 20 or 30 syscalls to draw one line of a window&#x27;s border. That seemed exceptionally inefficient to me, so I stopped using Windows. I generally worked in DOS, but if I wanted a GUI, Geoworks provided an experience at least ten times better (subjectively) -- smooth UI, ability to multitask, a surprisingly good word processor and other well-designed software included.

I recall windows 95&#x2F;98 being pretty slow to boot. I also recall being warned by teachers not to move the mouse while things were booting as that would allegedly slow things down further.
These days the only real time I wonder &quot;wtf is this thing doing&quot; is when I&#x27;m waiting about 5-10 seconds for my mac to wake up from sleep.

&gt; Windows 10 box to go sleep I know I am in for an infuriating waste of minutes&#x27; worth of disk thrashing before the bloody thing even deigns to reacknowledge my existence.Yeah, what the heck is this? I use a win10 box solely for gaming, and every single time I wake from sleep, Antimalware Executable keeps my machine from doing anything for several minutes. It&#x27;s infuriating.

And now that &quot;the web is the internet&quot; even more than ever, developers and designers are giving us spinners&#x2F;loading indicators ALL THE TIME. At least in my tabs they are.The web is much, much, much slower than it used to be.

That computers are just slower to interact with now is such a truism that we hardly remark upon it any more. It seems utterly insane that in the early 90&#x27;s I could just run Windows 3.1 on a bit of kit that in all likelihood wouldn&#x27;t even power a toaster today, and the experience was, well, frictionless. I don&#x27;t recall ever thinking &quot;wtf is this thing doing?&quot;, whereas today, by contrast, if I have the audacity to be afk for long enough for my Windows 10 box to go sleep I know I am in for an infuriating waste of minutes&#x27; worth of disk thrashing before the bloody thing even deigns to reacknowledge my existence.

It takes less than five seconds for my Windows 10 to go from asleep to ready for work, and that includes logging in with Windows Hello (the fingerprint reading is crazy fast).

I&#x27;ve spent surely coming up on years watching and reading all the content you&#x27;ve either created or helped produce. Indeed some things may have improved, but I sure enjoy the heck reading and watching all your exploits with &#x27;legacy computing&#x27;!

At the Computer History Museum, I use an IBM 1401 mainframe (1959). When you hit the power button, relays go ch-ch-chunk and it&#x27;s immediately ready to use. Because it has magnetic core memory, it even has the previous program already in memory, preserved over power-down. Computers have taken many steps backwards as far as startup time. Of course, loading a new program from punch cards is slow, so some things have improved :-)

So, the question is will people get to a point and say enough is enough? And if so, will enough people be saying it for it to make a difference?

On the plus side, emacs now starts far faster than most computers.

Watch a repl.it boot.  It is the new joy, for children, to see an entire machine appear before their eyes and be able to instantly code away on it.

&gt; I completely understand why things are going the way they are as our computing environment has become ever more hostile.care to elaborate a bit? what did you understand?i just can&#x27;t get my head around this idea that most non-mobile OSes have become such hostile environments...yes, the population at large only uses their phones and tablets and doesn&#x27;t care much. but they would be left without any entertainment if it wasn&#x27;t for those of us who still need decent non-mobile environments.

Because for those of us that care about graphics and selling desktop applications, it is mostly Apple, Google or Microsoft platforms.

We&#x27;re moving away from general purpose computing, and Apple is one of the greatest forces in this.Also, they are a threat to a free market for software, as they regulate their walled garden with arbitrary rules and skim off a lot of value.I honestly don&#x27;t understand why a large portion of developers have so much love for Apple. I&#x27;m personally a proud owner of a desktop PC with an ASUS motherboard. It serves me fine, and gives me full control over the software installed on it. I&#x27;m not a laptop-person but I believe there are many perfectly capable non-Apple laptops out there.

I completely understand why things are going the way they are as our computing environment has become ever more hostile. But I am very nostalgic for the time where I would power up a Vic-20 and within seconds be able to get to work.Teaching my daughter to program on a modern computer, we spend more time bootstrapping and in process, than we do in actual development.

Every other week Lenovo has some crazy 25-50% off coupon for their laptops.

New MBP with a 10th gen chip is a $600 upgrade over the base model with an 8th gen chip.

The weird thing is the price of windows laptops have skyrocketed with the shortages. New MBPs are cheaper than X1 Carbons and XPSs with 10gen chips.

&gt; [...] it appears that low-level system API such as exec and getxattr now do synchronous network activity before returning to the caller.WTAF. If this is really true, this is a reason for me to leave the platform for good. This is just in-acceptable in so many ways.

It&#x27;s surprising that they don&#x27;t improve the developer experience for their own developers using their own tools, including hardware.

But at Apple scale: 9% of $58 billion = $5.2 billion Mac revenue last quarter.

It&#x27;s not surprising. Macs are less than 10% of Apple&#x27;s revenue.Without Macs for developers and other content creators that other 90% doesn’t exist.

Except all of Apple&#x27;s other devices are built on macOS. Apple&#x27;s clear de-prioritization of macOS based on revenue numbers is so insane I can barely believe it&#x27;s happening. If developers, who use Macs in large numbers today, go to another platform, there&#x27;s very real risk that their entire empire starts to come apart at the seams. And, this may just be me being naive, but it doesn&#x27;t seem like that much work to keep macOS going, all they have to do is stop trying to turn it into iOS. They are literally doing a tremendous amount of active engineering work that drives developers away from their platforms.They are risking their entire empire because (apparently) someone at Apple has an axe to grind with macOS&#x27;s Unix underpinnings. And until they start getting real consequences (developer&#x27;s leaving in huge numbers), it doesn&#x27;t seem like it&#x27;s going to stop. The tragedy is, if they ever do reach that point, where developers are leaving in huge numbers, it&#x27;ll be too late. Platforms are a momentum game, you&#x27;re either going up, or you&#x27;re going down. And once you&#x27;re going down, you&#x27;re as good as dead.

Apples Macintosh division is the most profitable PC company in the world and has been for at least a decade. In fact, Macintosh is likely more profitable than all other PC companies combined.Less than 10% is no excuse.

I find it funny how people are downvoting your innocent comment pointing out a fact... out of anger and hate for the actual fact :D

&gt; IIRC there was no dedicated macOS “task force” like the one on iOSIt&#x27;s not surprising. Macs are less than 10% of Apple&#x27;s revenue.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.macrumors.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;apple-2q-2020-earnings&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.macrumors.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;apple-2q-2020-earnings&#x2F;</a>

They set &quot;fast = true&quot; as a global constant variable.

So many of the frameworks have shared code between macOS and iOS (e.g. MapKit, Foundation, Contacts etc..), so a perf fix in iOS pays dividends on macOS too.Perf changes are too numerous to mention, I’d recommend watching last year’s WWDC keynote describing the iOS 12 v&#x2F;s 13 perf advancements.

What changes permeated into macOS? What did your team do to improve iOS perf?

I agree.  This kind of behavior certainly smells like teams doing their development work on high-capacity low-latency networks without much performance oversight.

I wonder what % of their users are developers only begrudgingly sticking around for iOS builds.

&gt; I hope Apple currently has a team focused on macOS perf.Apple doesn&#x27;t give a fuck about macOS since 2015.

I hope Apple currently has a team focused on macOS perf.I worked on the team in charge of improving iOS (13) perf at Apple and IIRC there was no dedicated macOS “task force” like the one on iOS.Luckily some iOS changes permeated into macOS thanks to some shared codebases.

A command like `terraform` shouldn&#x27;t trigger the check because the quarantine system is bypassed altogether when you download and extract an archive. Maybe this is a red herring and your initial gut inkling is correct.

Try sampling the process as it starts; I doubt your issue is the one shown here.

Why would sandboxing be slower?They are definitely doing something way too slow.

&gt; IIRC the big thing that changed with 10.15 for CLI applications is that BSD-userland processes (i.e. ones that don&#x27;t go through all the macOS Frameworks, but just call libc syscall wrappers like fopen(2)) now also deal with sandboxing, since the BSD syscall ABI is now reimplemented in terms of macOS security capabilities.Is this actually new in macOS 10.15? I seem to recall this being a thing ever since sandboxing was a thing, even all the way back to when it was called Seatbelt.&gt; That means that any CLI process that &quot;walks&quot; the filesystem is going to generate huge amounts of sandboxd traffic, which bottlenecks sandboxd and so slows down the caller process.Is this not implemented in the kernel as an extension? I thought the checks went through MAC framework hooks. Doesn&#x27;t sandboxd just log access violations when told to do so by the Sandbox kernel extension?&gt; Unlike macOS app-bundles, regular BSD-userland executable binaries don&#x27;t have a capabilities manifest of their own, so they don&#x27;t start with any process-local capabilities (with some interesting exceptions, that I think involve the binary being embedded in the directory-structure of a system framework, where the binary inherits its capabilities from the enclosing framework.)I am fairly sure you can just embed a profile in a section of your app&#x27;s binary and call the sandboxing Mach call with that…

IIRC the big thing that changed with 10.15 for CLI applications is that BSD-userland processes (i.e. ones that don&#x27;t go through all the macOS Frameworks, but just call libc syscall wrappers like fopen(2)) now also deal with sandboxing, since the BSD syscall ABI is now reimplemented in terms of macOS security capabilities.Certain BSD-syscall-ABI operations like fopen(2) and readdir(2) are now not-so-fast by default, because the OS has to do a synchronous check of the individual process binary&#x27;s capabilities before letting the syscall through. But POSIX utilities were written to assume that these operations were fast-ish, and therefore they do tons of them, rather than doing any sort of batching.That means that any CLI process that &quot;walks&quot; the filesystem is going to generate huge amounts of security-subsystem request traffic; which seemingly bottlenecks the security subsystem (OS-wide!); and so slows down the caller process and any other concurrent processes&#x2F;threads that need capabilities-grants of their own.To find a fix, it&#x27;s important to understand the problem in fine detail. So: the CLI process has a set of process-local capabilities (kernel tokens&#x2F;handles); and whenever it tries to do something, it first tries to use these. If it turns out none of those existing capabilities let it perform the operation, then it has to request the kernel look at it, build a firewall-like &quot;capabilities-rules program&quot; from the collected information, and run it, to determine whether it should grant the process that capability. (This means that anything that already has capabilities granted from its code-signed capabilities manifest doesn&#x27;t need to sit around waiting for this capabilities-ruleset program to be built and run. Unless the app&#x27;s capabilities manifest didn&#x27;t grant the specific capability it&#x27;s trying to use.)Unlike macOS app-bundles, regular (i.e. freshly-compiled) BSD-userland executable binaries don&#x27;t have a capabilities manifest of their own, so they don&#x27;t start with any process-local capabilities. (You can embed one into them, but the process has to be &quot;capabilities-aware&quot; to actually make use of it, so e.g. GNU coreutils from Homebrew isn&#x27;t gonna be helped by this. Oh, and it won&#x27;t kick in if the program isn&#x27;t also code-signed, IIRC.)But all processes inherit their capabilities from their runtime ancestors, so there&#x27;s a simple fix, for the case of running CLI software interactively: grant your terminal emulator the capabilities you need through Preferences. In this case, the &quot;Full Disk Access&quot; capability. Then, since all your all CLI processes have your terminal emulator as a runtime ancestor-process, all your CLI processes will inherit that capability, and thus not need to spend time requesting it from the security subsystem.Note that this doesn&#x27;t apply to BSD-userland executable binaries which run as LaunchDaemons, since those aren&#x27;t being spawned by your terminal emulator. Those either need to learn to use capabilities for real; or, at least, they need to get exec(2)ed by a shim binary that knows how.-----tl;dr: I had this problem (slowness in numerous CLI apps, most obvious as `brew upgrade` suddenly taking forever) after upgrading to 10.15 as well. Granting &quot;Full Disk Access&quot; to iTerm fixed it for me.

It is worth noting that `terraform version` connects to HashiCorp’s own checkpoint service by default so this may not be the best test.

&gt; For example, I can run &quot;terraform apply&quot; and it could take up to 5 minutes to start, leaving my computer almost unusable until it runs.On a clean Catalina install this does not happen. Does “terraform version” have the same delay? If not, check your remote configuration - maybe run with TF_LOG=trace. Terraform Cloud will definitely highlight the inherent performance problems of using a VPN.

docker run -i -t -v &quot;$(pwd)&quot;:&#x2F;project hashicorp&#x2F;terraform:light apply &#x2F;project&#x2F;thing.tf . Maybe(if your projects terraform version is the latest.)?

In our company many of us have similar issues. I have always loved OSX but this time it is driving me crazy. I though the issue was some sort of company antivirus&#x2F;firewall, or it could even be a combination of that and this issue (maybe my vpn + path to company firewall is what magnifies the issue in this post). The thing is that some commands take 1 second, some others take 2 minutes or even more. Actually, some commands slow down the computer until they are finished (more likely, until they just decide to start).For example, I can run &quot;terraform apply&quot; and it could take up to 5 minutes to start, leaving my computer almost unusable until it runs. The weird thing is that this only happens sometimes. In some cases, I restart the laptop and it starts working a little bit faster, but the issue comes back after some time.It&#x27;s already been a few months since I try to run every command from a VM in a remote location, since I am tired of waiting for my commands to start.I have a macbook air from 2013 which never had this issue.Any easy fix that I could test? Disconnecting from the internet is not an option. Disabling SIP could be tried, but I think I already did and didn&#x27;t seem to fix it, plus it is not a good idea for a company laptop.Don&#x27;t we have some sort of hosts file or firewall that we can use to block or fake the connectivity to apple servers?

Nearly every article I see about macOS or Windows these days further confirms to me that switching entirely to Linux was the right call. Maybe 2020 will be the year of the Linux Desktop by default.

Are you sure it&#x27;s just not cached from the prior result? If I run the article&#x27;s commands twice in a row, the 2nd time is faster.

When you run &quot;bash hello&quot; you are calling exec() on bash, passing &quot;hello&quot; as an argument, which bash then reads; when you run &quot;.&#x2F;hello&quot; you are calling exec() on hello: the kernel then treats &quot;hello&quot; as an executable, but notes that &quot;hello&quot; starts with &quot;#!&quot; and then will run the specified interpreter for you, passing &quot;.&#x2F;hello&quot; as an argument. The kernel doesn&#x27;t think of &quot;hello&quot; as a program when you run &quot;bash hello&quot;.

The funny thing is its not transitive. No slowdown if you invoke bash specifically with a new shell.% rm &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh ; echo $&#x27;#!&#x2F;bin&#x2F;sh\necho Hello&#x27; &gt; &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh &amp;&amp; chmod a+x &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh% time bash &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh &amp;&amp; time bash &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.shHellobash &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh 0.00s user 0.00s system 83% cpu 0.004 totalHellobash &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh 0.00s user 0.00s system 77% cpu 0.003 totalvs the one from the article:% rm &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh ; echo $&#x27;#!&#x2F;bin&#x2F;sh\necho Hello&#x27; &gt; &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh &amp;&amp; chmod a+x &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh% time &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh &amp;&amp; time &#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.shHello&#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh 0.00s user 0.00s system 2% cpu 0.134 totalHello&#x2F;tmp&#x2F;test.sh 0.00s user 0.00s system 73% cpu 0.004 total(edited for formating)

Pop_OS!By far the best linux I&#x27;ve tried when trying to get feature parity with macOS.

Give Pop OS a look. It&#x27;s based on Ubuntu with some additional UI polish.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=QGcvHMNaDd0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=QGcvHMNaDd0</a>

For reasons of personal prejudice, I&#x27;ll never install any Windows version on any hardware I own. Debian was always my first choice back in the desktop linux days, and still is for servers, but I haven&#x27;t looked at the landscape recently. It seems to have become more consolidated, which is not surprising but still mildly disappointing.Edit: and WSL is not Linux

Depends on the laptop. I&#x27;ve had good experiences with thinkpads and business class Dells on Linux (and BSDs, for that matter).

Windows 10 with WSL if you have a laptop.Debian or similar or ArchLinux if you have a desktop.

That feels amazing to finally hear some good Ubuntu news. We need it. The only sleeker options for privacy (Windows and macOS) are horrendous. Thanks for sharing, might try out Ubuntu 20 then, might be as sleek at Linux Mint?

Ubuntu 20 has been a pleasant surprise, it seems to have turned a productivity and speed corner.. I&#x27;ve been getting lost in it for hours on end and forgetting to use my MacBook.The feeling reminds me of the first Macbooks I used when switching away from Windows Vista.

Have you looked into WSL2?I just recently switched from Mac OS to windows and it really hasn’t been a bad experience.I would go full Linux but the drivers for the GPU on my laptop seem to be a bit of a mess currently.

I switched from MacOS to Linux years ago. For a developer workstation these days I&#x27;d probably either go with Ubuntu LTS or Fedora (my personal choice). Either runs fine on my XPS 13.Note: I really wanted to like WSL, but it just didn&#x27;t work for me.

<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxmint.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxmint.com&#x2F;</a>It&#x27;s ubuntu without the bullshit monitization.

If in doubt just switch to ubuntu (there are better alternatives, but its a good starting point). I’m done with macos (tho i really loved it).

I used Arch on a server once (still running) but found the experience on Debian was more to my taste, and somehow never liked pacman. Maybe it&#x27;s time to take another look. I never tried it on the desktop.

I&#x27;ve never lost a weekend to a Debian dist-upgrade. Just read the release notes carefully beforehand, take a full backup of your data (which you should be doing anyway), make a note of any non-Debian applications you&#x27;re using on that machine (that&#x27;s the stuff that will need the most extensive testing post-upgrade) and it should simply work.

After you&#x27;ve gotten used to Linux, you might want to try Arch.It is lightweight, since you choose everything that is installed, sort of opt-in.It has all the latest software.It has &quot;rolling releases&quot; which means there is never a giant lost-weekend distribution upgrade.It has the AUR (arch user repository) for just about any software ever.

Mint been my daily driver for a year, does a fine job so far

Fedora &quot;just works&quot; and has the some of the more sane defaults. Only tweaks one typically needs to do is add the RPM Fusion repos and, at some point, disable&#x2F;tune-down SELinux when it is a bit too paranoid.

I would recommend: Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Elementary OS, Pop_OS!if you want: nice experience out of the boxI would recommend: Arch, Gentoo, Debian Net inst, Voidif you want a base system and install things you want on top of it

I switched almost 2 years ago after 15 years on Macs.Fedora 32 Workstation is pretty good if you want to see the best of what Linux can offer. It may not be the lightest and fastest distribution but it is easy to install and everything works. You&#x27;ll get to experience Gnome which is the most original Linux desktop environment and the best one in terms of user experience in my opinion.If you want something more traditional with the start menu or dock or desktop icons, perhaps something like KDE Neon is better place to start. It might feel more familiar. Will be lighter&#x2F;faster too.Put each of them on a USB and run them live on your machine for few minutes each and see which one makes more sense to you.

It looks like my time with MacOS is rapidly coming to an end. Any Linux distro recommendations these days?

The only kernel-level security software on my systems is Little Snitch, and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t do anything unless there’s network activity, so it doesn’t explain anything.

From the comments, roughly, are you running third party &quot;security&quot; tools?&gt; Is there any &quot;security&quot; software running on your Mac? I&#x27;ve seen this sort of thing caused by that, but not in general.&gt; I ran the two line test and it had no delay at all. The Mac doesn&#x27;t check for notarization on shell scripts or any non-bundle executable. I just did it again with a new test2.sh and Wireshark capture and there is nothing.&gt; I do a lot of Keychain code and I&#x27;ve also never seen those delays. The reason I suspect they told you not to use that API is that it&#x27;s in the &quot;legacy&quot; macOS keychain. They really want everyone to move to the modern keychain but lots of people, myself included, still need the older macOS specific features.&gt; I&#x27;m not saying you are crazy, but all of these things though are the trademark reek of kernel level security software that is intercepting and scanning every exec and file read on the system. We had an issue with Cisco AMP once that took Xcode builds from under 10 seconds to over 5 minutes until we were able to get it fixed.

I don&#x27;t remember if it did or not, but I&#x27;m fairly certain it did. (otherwise I&#x27;d probably remember it, I think...)

There seems to be a delay of about 5 seconds, then it &quot;gives up&quot; trying to notarize your program .

I experienced this one day while tethering in the train. I was coding and running `go build` multiple times.I could not for the life of me understand why go build would take upwards to 30 seconds to run and sometimes 100ms. I finally realized it was related to my internet connection being extremely spotty. I went online and searched if anybody had the same experience with `go build` but couldn&#x27;t find anything.I finally know what happened. This is a pretty intolerable &quot;feature&quot;.

The OS phoning home for every executable I want to run on my machine is a “security feature” the same way a key logger is.

Being able to run arbitrary software on the hardware Apple has graciously lent me is an annoying level of power that I&#x27;m not fully comfortable with either. I&#x27;m liable to shoot my foot off if Apple the all-seeing doesn&#x27;t save me from myself.

&gt; the Church-Turing thesis means there are an infinite number of ways to implement any given thingThat&#x27;s true (or else there are 0 ways), but it&#x27;s not what the Church–Turing thesis says.

All of these complaints are about security features.Yes these features could be better implemented, but I&#x27;m happy they&#x27;re there. It&#x27;s very important to be able to opt out of them, but I like that they&#x27;re the default.Notarization needs a cleanup pass and the rest of it seems like it needs an optimization pass.P.S. The rationale for notarization is to not distribute and thus advertise the filters and detection mechanisms Apple uses to detect malware. If these things were distributed then malware authors could analyze and evade them. Security through obscurity does make a certain amount of sense here as the Church-Turing thesis means there are an infinite number of ways to implement any given thing including malware and there is no single filter or analytical step that can detect all possible malware permutations.

I feel like cp might do an APFS CoW and this might still cause problems…

Sorry, when I said &quot;changing the filename to test2.sh&quot;, I meant in the commands run, not `mv test.sh test2.sh`.  i.e. I have both `test.sh` and `test2.sh` in `&#x2F;tmp` now.

If they are caching based on inode, this will not invalidate the cache. Do cp test.sh test2.sh and try again.

Their &quot;see!&quot; shell script example is a bit rubbish because I get 0.012s, 0.005s on this Mac laptop whilst getting 0.022s, 0.023s on Linux box 1 and 0.006s, 0.006s on Linux box 2.Changing the filename to test2.sh on the Mac (which should trigger the delay, right?) gets 0.006s, 0.006s.I don&#x27;t think the shell scripts are doing what they claim (and wouldn&#x27;t the second run be faster anyway because of caching?)

I switched to a sleek amd based setup and ubuntu, 64 gigs of ram, tons of nvme storage and for a decent price. Sad to see macos go out my daily toolkit, but fortunately i no longer have to deal with this kind of crap. I still use mac occasionally but day by day it becomes less relevant.

and there are a lot of background processes.running just firefox and terminal, ps -ef|wc -l is 198and many of them have no reason to be on my system.

Increasingly I find macOS only to be tolerable with iCloud (and Siri, location, suggestions, bug reporting, et c) entirely disabled, and Little Snitch’s built in&#x2F;automatic whitelisting for Apple services disabled, and most of the background processes entirely denied networking access. It phones home constantly even with all of the services disabled&#x2F;opted out.It’s indeed a huge mess, from a privacy standpoint too, not just a performance one. It’s sad also to lose things like AirPlay or iMessage as collateral damage in the process. :&#x2F;I just can’t tolerate a machine that hits the network hundreds of times a day when doing normal computing tasks that do not involve the network. They even tolerate this sort of spyware in App Store apps, too.Is it too much to ask for a polished workstation OS that lets me boot and edit a local text file of notes and save and quit without notifying 4 different parties that I did so?

Adding to anecdotal, same trajectory for me, for web development. Really happy with Manjaro on Razor Blade 15 for a year now.

Not associated at all but due to loving it, I wanted to share PhotoPea as you mentioned Gimp.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.photopea.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.photopea.com</a>

I recently _really_ tried adopting Linux on a hobby development machine that I built back in 2016 (hardly new hardware -- and desktop not laptop). Sleep never worked, graphics sometimes borked, UI felt janky and inconsistent, icons are super fugly and often too theme-y to the point of being undifferentiated at a glance, HiDPI support is a giant mixed bag (in 2020), machine would randomly freeze (mostly elementOS; Ubuntu didn&#x27;t freeze as much), Hauppage drivers rarely worked consistently and often required reboots, I hated the mouse acceleration curves and was horrified to learn they were effectively hardcoded in X (I&#x27;m not talking just speed which is tweakable), gstreamer was nightmare to develop for, the Ubuntu &amp; elementaryOS stores are a joke, and the mix of apt&#x2F;snap&#x2F;nix was very frustrating and the opposite of user-friendly.I switched back to my 2012 MBP and it&#x27;s predictably gone well since, plus I get iMessage integration with my iPhone.YMMV

True. Amusingly, I was always trying to make Windows behave more like Unix, but now I&#x27;m trying to make Linux behave more like Mac (just a few things, like the global keyboard bindings).The major pain points are nearly all related to lack of integration with my iPhone (with Messages being the big one, followed by Notes).

I&#x27;ve been seeing the trajectory of Windows (pre-2012 or so) -&gt; Mac (2012 - ~2019 or so) -&gt; Linux (~2018 - now) play out with quite a few people without any issues.And I don&#x27;t mean developers. They&#x27;re all pretty educated people but it&#x27;s taken me by surprise. They come to me in frustration over Mac, they don&#x27;t want to return to Windows and they really, really, really want linux. I&#x27;ve been using linux since about 1997 so they come to me. I usually push back, thinking &quot;do you really want a unix workstation?!&quot; but they insist.My strategy has been some x2xx lenovo (like x230 or so) for about $300 from ebay, 8&#x2F;16gb of ram or so with an SSD, the extended battery pack, putting mint on it and then just handing it over. Everyone, much to my continued surprise, has loved it and are really happy with it.It&#x27;s happened 4 times now and I&#x27;m still shocked every time. They&#x27;ve told me they use youtube to figure things out.They&#x27;re fine with libreoffice, gimp does what they need, supposedly spotify works on it fine, they don&#x27;t know what bash or the kernel is and it&#x27;s all fine. Incredible.

I&#x27;ve gone full circle. Went from desktop linux (mostly Arch) to OSX ~7 or so years ago, and now due to a combination of frustration with the butterfly keyboards and then a slew of issues with macOS itself, I&#x27;m back to linux desktop for my dev machine.From my perspective as a quote-unquote power user, it feels like Apple just constantly insists on shooting themselves in the foot with unnecessary and ill conceived innovations. Either way, I&#x27;m happy with my new setup and probably won&#x27;t go back to macbooks anytime soon.

Have you tried 19.10 or 20.04? Before that I had a lot of issues with my Dell XPS 9560 because of optimus, but it got a lot better in those versions. YMMV but it actually worked out of the box with nary a hint of manual configuration when I installed 20.04 recently.Edit: should note, when I say work I mean you can switch between GPUs&#x2F;launch an app on the dedicated GPU with ease.

That is not true anymore. With 20.04 it supports hybrid graphics just fine. The only issue I had was sharing cuda and OpenGL context since GL ran on the Intel card. This should not be a concern for most people I assume.

The dual GPU is a pain in the butt since Nvidia still doesn&#x27;t support Optimus on Linux (and probably never will).

For touchpad issues in Ubuntu uninstall xserver-xorg-input-synaptics and keep only xserver-xorg-input-libinput installed.

When I switched, I just made the macbook not suspend on lid close, plugged it in and left it running 24&#x2F;7. Then I just screen shared or ssh&#x27;d in in whenever I needed to do something iOS related.

I would definitely consider moving to Linux for my next laptop - unfortunately I do a decent amount of iOS development, which I realize isn&#x27;t impossible to do on Linux, but I can&#x27;t imagine it&#x27;d be worth the hassle. :&#x2F;

I am using Ubuntu 20.04 on a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen2 and you would be surprised how &quot;normal&quot; it feels as a development machine. Sure there some little annoyances, the touchpad behaves a little worse than on windows, sound is a little worse. But the most important things, Keyboard and Screen are excellent. The system in general does not feel like the horror stories that people keep telling about linux on desktop(notebook). Now that WSL2 is getting Cuda even windows looks workable. Their new terminal app is amazing.
After a decade of Mac notebooks it was quite liberating and I would not switch back even if the flaws in macOS would be fixed. It is for sure the nicest of the big 3 operating systems but for development work Ubuntu is hard to beat for me. YMMV but it won&#x27;t hurt to look around you what else is there.

MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?