The WSL integration is a pretty good result of that effort too.

Didn&#x27;t we already solve this problem with containers?

There are perpetual reminders all around that Microsoft&#x27;s only pretending to like f&#x2F;oss because that&#x27;s where the developer attention (and thus corporate money) is. There&#x27;s spyware in all of their open source apps (TypeScript excluded, because they couldn&#x27;t get away with it there) that you can of course patch out, but you can&#x27;t get it removed from the project because, free software or not, Microsoft gets to decide what goes in or out.Bet you a dollar the GitHub mobile app that&#x27;s going to come out pretty soon will also be totally proprietary with no source provided. It&#x27;s a growing trend in developer tooling: even Docker&#x27;s desktop versions (not Microsoft&#x27;s fault, but still) are not even open source (much less free software).It&#x27;s going to be really sad in a few years when Microsoft starts turning the screws to extract more revenue from this free software ecosystem (GitHub&#x2F;npm) that they are coming to exert major control over.Soon, the most common &quot;industry standard&quot; tooling for the largest and most popular software development ecosystem (javascript) will rely heavily on proprietary software that spies on you continuously while you use it, just like Windows.

Reminds me of a job in a past life I was quite happy to leave. It seemed like all I did was clean up low-end websites compromised through Frontpage extensions.That was a year I&#x27;ll never get back, but I do highly recommend the fun of leaving _vti_bin&#x2F; directories laying around with funny-behaving things in them. Every few months I still see evidence in my personal site logs of a script kiddie slowly becoming enraged as they figure out I left them a busy box to play with.

Are you sure it needs a remote component? The remote SSH dev experience is actually pretty good in python.

Use the remote containers plugin and that problem goes away.

I wish the vscode remote dev functionality didn&#x27;t require a binary server&#x2F;remote side component. I have a bunch of users who want to use it, but it&#x27;s not compatible with the system libraries on our servers and dev environments.

remote dev (and I guess now codespaces) is one of those &quot;clear differentiators&quot; that is actually getting me to move away from intellij and friends.

How does it work with poor or slow internet connection?

The SSH plugin is insanely good. I can dev from a Windows machine and SSH into my Mac and do React Native (native) iOS modules. Even my zsh shell acts as if it&#x27;s local. Running `pod install` from Windows. It&#x27;s seemless.

So nice when it works and has been breaking incredibly badly for me recently. The Python extensions that vscode was trying to bring up whenever I connected to my remote had some weird interaction with a virtualenv and just pinned the server to 100% CPU and rendered it completely unresponsive. Repeatedly. Reboot to recover.Generally extremely good, but for obvious reasons this makes me think twice about connecting to some things.

Emacs has had Tramp for ages, which does this. Yes, it&#x27;s amazing. :)

I agree. I was floored by how well it worked, and actually had doubts that it was working in the way I expected it to&#x2F;it&#x27;s supposed to. It was just so seamless and natural. I kept thinking there was no way it was using the correct configuration, running the right scripts, etc.It was a lifesaver too. I was using a severely under-powered ThinkPad and I&#x27;m admittedly awful with Windows. Being able to quickly swap to that remote setup reduced a tremendous amount of friction for me.When good software works, it&#x27;s so cool.

It&#x27;s amazing!I&#x27;ve been doing some AOSP customization (Android 9) and I have several remote (Ubuntu) servers hosting&#x2F;building OS images for different implementations (it takes too much disk space for a local PC and even so, I have a Windows based PC because of reasons, so if I had to use VMs, it would be too slow).Now I can use intellisense through the entire Linux folder without delays. And... a global search for a string takes no more than 2 seconds. And I am talking about a string search through the entire codebase (not just the kernel; thousands of files).My days are brighter, my life happier, my mood changed; thank you whoever invented this!

True, I love it and it has been a game changer. The only problem with that is that it only works with the official VSCode, not with the OSS counterpart, which is a damn shame.

Their remote development capability is amazing and was quite a game changer for me. Having a nice ide where all of the plugins work on a remote server as if everything is local is so nice!

You can register your own machines with Visual Studio Codespaces: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;devblogs.microsoft.com&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;bring-your-own-machine-to-visual-studio-online&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;devblogs.microsoft.com&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;bring-your-own-m...</a>It&#x27;s not entirely self-hosted, but it&#x27;s an interesting hybrid middle-ground.

Is there a way yet for me to run a server on Windows, and be able to code anywhere from my web browser? I basically want code-server that works on Windows.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cdr&#x2F;code-server" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cdr&#x2F;code-server</a>

Ah, this really makes sense with all of the recent work they&#x27;ve done on VSCode&#x27;s remote development capabilities.- An early announcement on their focus: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.visualstudio.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;02&#x2F;remote-development" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.visualstudio.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;02&#x2F;remote-develo...</a>- Most (all?) of their recent VSCode updates include improvements to remote development. i.e.: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.visualstudio.com&#x2F;updates&#x2F;v1_44#_remote-development" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.visualstudio.com&#x2F;updates&#x2F;v1_44#_remote-developm...</a>- Facebook partnering and becoming an early, heavy adopter: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.facebook.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;post&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;19&#x2F;facebook-microsoft-partnering-remote-development&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.facebook.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;post&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;19&#x2F;faceboo...</a>

Yes, I think it is... Gitpod still has gitlab though :)It&#x27;s quite crazy what GitHub is doing...

They already have a blog post up about it - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;github-codespaces&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;github-codespaces&#x2F;</a>

We&#x27;re pretty stoked to have new friends in cloud-native development!Microsoft&#x2F;GitHub joining the dev-environment-as-code movement is huge, will likely save us all a few more years of dependency-hell.(EDIT: Removed official blog post link because taywrobel posted it first)

They should be OK because they&#x27;re still usable with GitLab and have a self-hosted offering.

Hopefully one day we can get over &quot;sherlocking&quot;. When you build your business off of another business, you&#x27;re still at the mercy of the other business.

Having some thought about the GitPod folks[0] that provide nearly the same feature set.I hope we are not witnessing a big sherlocking being done here, but… it really looks like one. :&#x2F;[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io&#x2F;</a>

Similarly Github Actions is reusing a lot of Azure Pipelines under the hood.One of the most impressive parts about Microsoft&#x27;s recent acquisitions is how quickly essentially two separate companies are now sharing code. It&#x27;s hard enough to get different teams&#x2F;products in the same company to use shared code in a meaningful way, and Microsoft has accomplished it with a new company.

So I imagine this is similar to codesandbox.io which already lets you do frontendy bits?I imagine the way Code spaces works is you spin up a container in azure with checked out GitHub branch, vscode on the browser then interfaces with the container(s).Pretty neat idea if you can customize the docker container setup like a simple docker compose file or something.

For the love of God please make it work at least manageably in phones! Tall ask no doubt, but y&#x27;all seem capable of it. GitHub does everything right except getting the phone experience right!

Is the codespaces team hiring by any chance? I took a look at GitHub Jobs, and there are a few positions I could apply to there, but none directly related.

I&#x27;m very excited about this! I hope you can host Codespaces in Australia as well so the latency is nice and fast! I tried VSO but I could only deploy to Singapore and it wasn&#x27;t fast enough for me in Australia.Super super super excited!

I don’t know Visual Studio Codespaces.Something I don’t yet understand about GitHub Codespaces is: can you execute a Dockerfile from it? Can you execute multiple ones? Can you execute docker-compose configurations?Is it just an editor, or can it also spin an AWS (or Azure?) instance of the code you are writing?I have seen people mention they can code from an iPad; but that’s not a complete workstation replacement unless it is easy to run your code.

Codespaces uses the same underlying technology as Visual Studio Codespaces to bring a fully GitHub-native experience to our GitHub users. We&#x27;ve been working with multiple teams on the Visual Studio side to make this happen (I work as the product lead on Codespaces)

Visual Studio Online (before the recent renaming as Azure DevOps) was at first, and for years, a Team Fondation server in the cloud an associated service. Naming, renaming, re-renaming is always quite an issue with Microsoft products.

Thanks for this! I was just gonna say &quot;wait, this looks exactly like Visual Studio Online&quot;.

Interestingly, it seems that Microsoft hast just renamed its &quot;Visual Studio Online&quot; (which was basically the same as this new product) to &quot;Visual Studio Codespaces&quot;. So it seems that they are merging these two products. (See: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;visualstudio.microsoft.com&#x2F;services&#x2F;visual-studio-codespaces&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;visualstudio.microsoft.com&#x2F;services&#x2F;visual-studio-co...</a>)EDIT: They actually announced the renaming of the product a couple of days ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;microsofts-visual-studio-online-code-editor-is-now-visual-studio-codespaces-and-gets-a-price-drop&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;microsofts-visual-studio-o...</a>

2 core, 4GB ram... can&#x27;t config atm.

I think it&#x27;s 2 cores, 4 GB RAM by default but they are planning of adding other options 
I expect it&#x27;ll be in line with the VS Codespaces offerings <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;azure.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-gb&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;details&#x2F;visual-studio-online&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;azure.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-gb&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;details&#x2F;visual-stu...</a>

Hey I&#x27;m a Codespaces PM. It&#x27;s 2 cores 4GB right now but there will be more configurations coming soon as get further along in the beta.

I couldn&#x27;t find any info on how much memory&#x2F;vCPU these will have available or if it&#x27;s configurable, does anyone know?

Three years, and we&#x27;ll have a version control ribbon to replace all pre-existing UI elements.

I tend to agree, it&#x27;s quite crazy what they are trying to pull off technically. It&#x27;s hard to imagine how all these features will not impact the service. Also it&#x27;s probably just bleeding money... millions of dollars on CodeScan alone.

Two years, tops, then it&#x27;ll be unusable.

A thin dusting of &quot;Open Source&quot; over lock-in, spyware, and censorship.To thunderous applause from people who are fooled by the first element of that.

What does &quot;getting Microsofted&quot; mean, especially in the context of the last 10 years?

Github is getting Microsofted, there were some good things about this in the recent past, but I wonder...

Indeed, the signal to noise ratio for GitHub is pretty rapidly decreasing. It&#x27;s getting a lot harder to find the important details on any given page.

Since when is saying &quot;I think&quot; considered to &quot;proclaim as certainty&quot;?

&gt; It&#x27;s sad to see GitHub moving slowly into spreading itself too thinPeople have been saying this every time GitHub has added a feature that wasn&#x27;t SCM. How is this time any different?&gt; I think GitHub becoming SourceForgeV2 is closer than people think. It&#x27;s bound to happen at one point.How do you possibly jump from Codespaces to SourceForgeV2, and somehow proclaim it as certainty?

&gt; instead of just improving the platform they have. They now try to replace CI services, donation platforms and now remote code editors.Aren&#x27;t they in the category of &quot;improving the platform they have&quot;? What exactly do you want Github to be improved then?

By this logic, Apple should have stuck to Macs and never created the iPhone..

I&#x27;m not sure it&#x27;s bound to happen. They&#x27;re owned by a trillion dollar company and Github is a super important tool in their overall developer strategy.

&gt; Seems their core service is still holding up so far, but with all these moves in different directions, I&#x27;m getting a bit worried that the SCM and software collaboration part will be left out.They literally just made teams cheaper and added to their free tier.

They now try to replace CI services, donation platforms and now remote code editors.I am not too worried about spreading themselves too thinly. GitHub Actions is much nicer than some of the competitors I used before (though I still love sr.ht builds).Also, it would be bad for them not to branch out. GitLab is now a strong competitor and they also provide many features beyond code hosting, such as CI, registries, etc.It is nice that there are three large players now (GitHub, GitLab, Atlassian). GitHub was stagnant for a while, but they seem to be moving fast again after GitLab became a serious competitor. It&#x27;s a clear case where competition is benefitting the users, both in price and in platform capabilities.

So GitHub (Microsoft) continues to venture way beyond just source control and it&#x27;s directly related areas, into a much more overall &quot;development&quot; strategy, seemingly echoing what GitLab have been doing for a while.It&#x27;s sad to see GitHub moving slowly into spreading itself too thin, instead of just improving the platform they have. They now try to replace CI services, donation platforms and now remote code editors.Seems their core service is still holding up so far, but with all these moves in different directions, I&#x27;m getting a bit worried that the SCM and software collaboration part will be left out. I think GitHub becoming SourceForgeV2 is closer than people think. It&#x27;s bound to happen at one point.

Wouldn&#x27;t be my guess, personally:<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;atom" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;atom</a>

No, this is based on VS Code&#x27;s Visual Studio Online: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;microsofts-visual-studio-online-code-editor-is-now-visual-studio-codespaces-and-gets-a-price-drop&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;microsofts-visual-studio-o...</a>

The people at Github that used to be paid to work on Atom may be the ones that built this :)

Agree. And considering the size of this, they are executing a very well defined playbook. Sounds like a very successful company integration to me. Will be good for everyone.

Wow, I was okay with this until I saw the promise to keep Atom around.That&#x27;s...scummy.

Pretty sure they haven&#x27;t been paid to work on Atom since the acquisition: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;atom&#x2F;atom&#x2F;graphs&#x2F;contributors" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;atom&#x2F;atom&#x2F;graphs&#x2F;contributors</a>They killed Atom the day they took over - they haven&#x27;t had the balls to say anything publicly, but just go look at the commit graphs in the Atom repos. Here&#x27;s a summary:
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;DuncanLock&#x2F;status&#x2F;1177747512905461760" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;DuncanLock&#x2F;status&#x2F;1177747512905461760</a>

I can only imagine how the people at GitHub paid to work on Atom are feeling right now.Microsoft hasn&#x27;t been kind to them!

I think it’s saying you’re still using chrome under the covers when you use electron apps.

It&#x27;s a browser without an address bar.

&gt; You&#x27;re still developing in a browser.How so? Node&#x2F;Electron != browser, though I see how the whole HTML&#x2F;JS&#x2F;CSS thing can be confusing.

I like how they say that if you don&#x27;t want to develop in a browser, you can connect VS Code. You&#x27;re still developing in a browser.Still a great IDE though.

this is not even just replacing your local vs code.This is a minor variation of the existing Visual Studio Online (now renamed Visual Studio Codespace) product.The core of it is running an automatically created azure hosted docker container. It automatically checks out your repository. It actually runs the whole VS Code backend on the remote machine, with the the user interface being provided by the &quot;local&quot; VS Code instance (web or desktop).I&#x27;m going to bet this will end up with identical pricing to the existing product, at least if you don&#x27;t pay for any github products. If you do, there might be some discount or included running time with those products.The only part that sounds new here is the editor integration into the GitHub site.

I doubt you&#x27;d get the same quick &amp; simple experience you have with Repl.it. This is more replacing your local VSCode, which is not what Repl.it aims to replace.

This also seems quite similar to repl.it, which I&#x27;ve been enjoying a lot recently.I wonder if they&#x27;ll support plugins and importing other VS Code settings to the online editor.

Boy do I have a surprise for you! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;microsoft-edge&#x2F;hosting&#x2F;webview2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;microsoft-edge&#x2F;hosting&#x2F;webv...</a>

Looks great!At least now we don&#x27;t need to run VS Code in another Chromium instance!Now that Microsoft has Chromium Edge in Windows, it should be possible to provide a good way to spawn and communicate with Chromium GUIs&#x2F;windows from native Win32 apps! That would be killer!

Being able to connect, do the work, run tests and everything without needing a strong laptop sounds like a good solution for people who like to travel.

Can you share what issues you&#x27;ve had?Been looking at this.

I&#x27;ve been self-hosting VS Code Server ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cdr&#x2F;code-server" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cdr&#x2F;code-server</a> ) and using it from Chrome on my iPad with a keyboard and mouse when I&#x27;m on the road..If this is the same or similar approach, then it should work just fine.If the pricing for Codespaces is reasonable, I&#x27;m going to move to that for sure. It&#x27;s been kind of a hassle to keep my self-hosted setup running properly.

Hey, the first tweet is mine. Codespaces work pretty great on an iPad. We&#x27;re going to be making improvements to the experience here as we get to GA but we know it&#x27;s a scenario everyone is really excited about.

This tweet from GitHub&#x27;s lead designer would suggest so!<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;notdetails&#x2F;status&#x2F;1258070699165585410" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;notdetails&#x2F;status&#x2F;1258070699165585410</a>... also this tweet from another GitHub product designer<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;mschoening&#x2F;status&#x2F;1258069269260038144" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;mschoening&#x2F;status&#x2F;1258069269260038144</a>

Does it work with the software keyboard? I seem to recall Monaco not really supporting mobile.

Super excited to hear this, I had the exact same question reading the page. Any chance you&#x27;d be willing to slip us a peak on when we could reasonably (even a Qx ballpark) on when Beta begins?

Seems you are about to finally turn the iPad into a good development device :)

My kingdom for native VSCode on iPad. It’d be soooo much better than a Safari version.

That&#x27;s correct it&#x27;s usable from an iPad during the beta. There are a few known issues but we&#x27;re planning on addressing those so that we can support this workflow (I work as the product lead on Codespaces).

Backend may have been the wrong word, but they mention being able to connect to your codespace from VSCode running on your computer. It would be cool if you could connect to your codespace from vim running on your computer in the same way.

What do you mean by &quot;a backend for vim&quot;? I use vim almost exclusively for coding but I&#x27;m not really sure what you mean here.

I wonder if it&#x27;s usable from an iPad. I haven&#x27;t tried an online ide before, but if it works well it could be a great mobile development tool.It would be awesome if this could be setup as a backend for vim as well. Given how well Coc.vim integrates with VSCode tooling, I&#x27;m cautiously optimistic.

nice! thought about an environment like that. would be great to have python, golang and c&#x2F;cpp runtimes.

&gt;gitpod.io . . . works great on . . . iPadsgitpod.io is tightly integrated with the Monaco editor; is it not?I ask because the top of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;microsoft.github.io&#x2F;monaco-editor&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;microsoft.github.io&#x2F;monaco-editor&#x2F;</a> says, &quot;The Monaco editor is not supported in mobile browsers or mobile web frameworks&quot;. Has Microsoft changed their policy and simply neglected to change the passage I just quoted?

FYI gitpod.io offers 16 CPU &#x2F; 60 GB RAM, and works great on Chromebooks &amp; iPads.

&gt;I think Chromebooks are going to be a great use for this.A great use for this if you don&#x27;t mind losing the ability to run Ublock Origin and similar extensions when Google &quot;upgrades&quot; the software on the Chromebook to extension manifest V3.That is relevant because most developers probably need to look stuff up on the web while they are working. Some of us really don&#x27;t like ads.

Thank you, very interesting! I use IntelliJ mostly, and this is something I wish was available on that platform

I’m not sure if you can bring your own machine[1] with GitHub Codespaces, but you can with Visual Studio Codespaces, which has the same underlying tech&#x2F;featureset. (Visual Studio Codespaces was known as Visual Studio Online until last week) it basically does exactly what you want, let’s you use your dedicated local resources on another machine or remotely via the browser or using VS Code proper.I work at Microsoft on Azure but not with VS Codespaces or with GitHub Codespaces — I’m just a big fan&#x2F;user&#x2F;beta tester.[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;devblogs.microsoft.com&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;bring-your-own-machine-to-visual-studio-online&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;devblogs.microsoft.com&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;bring-your-own-m...</a>

I hope they allow to run the VMs on local hardware. I would love to use my desktop resources (more than they are offering, which is still generous) for this feature.I think Chromebooks are going to be a great use for this. Lightweight client but full editor and environment, with no hassle.

They have Mac runners for GitHub actions, so maybe they could (although you’d have to pay a steep price since it’s hard to virtualize OS X).

ahh shucks :( But this means it will support Swift so yay??

Any language you can run in a Linux container, so not XCode, because Apple

Awesome! Seems like it&#x27;s very capable even from launch.

Well then I&#x27;m glad you&#x27;re here...Is it possible to integrate with an existing Dockerfile? My team&#x27;s main build is handled by an image that is a result of years of fine-tuning and files with external dependency definitions (like requirements.txt for pip). Getting all of that installed in github&#x27;s container is only slightly easier than getting it all installed in a desktop IDE, which is currently prohibitively difficult for us. We don&#x27;t want to end up with a second platform we have to maintain.More generally, is there going to be a clean way to to use this if we already have a containerized stack, especially editing code in a user&#x27;s existing container? (With the code still under version control, of course)

We support all languages that can run within a Linux container, see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;mcolyer&#x2F;codespace-containers&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;base&#x2F;Dockerfile" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;mcolyer&#x2F;codespace-containers&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;...</a> for a base example image (I work as the product lead on this).

What languages does this support? It would be super cool if this supports `xcodebuild` :O

This is great, I can&#x27;t help but feel like the whole point of rewriting a part of VS in JS was to get to this stage.

Given that a locally running VS Code can interact with the host system, and a webpage cannot, I&#x27;m sure there will be some differences between the two.And like you said, the exception in features could be extensions. If that&#x27;s the case, it&#x27;s not &quot;the full Visual Studio Code experience&quot;.(Not to take away from their announcement, it&#x27;s very interesting and I&#x27;ve joined the wait list, just this type of absolute wording irks me).

Not having extensions alone already means it&#x27;s not the full experience. How many people run vanilla VS Code?Can I run unit tests? Debug?

It&#x27;s plausible, given that VS Code is effectively a web app. (the exception in features could be Extensions)Not the first IDE to have full-feature parity on desktop and web.

I&#x27;ve been using Visual Studio Online (now Visual Studio Codespaces) which is the same tech, I&#x27;ve found it has everything my local VS Code had; extensions, terminal, debugging, themes, all the settings. Pretty remarkable, but as VS Code has always been a web application, it make some sense.
I&#x27;m sure there&#x27;ll be something missing but nothing major

&gt; Get the full Visual Studio Code experience without leaving GitHub.I&#x27;m going to go out on a limb here and say that statement isn&#x27;t quite accurate.

&gt; Give it a decade and you&#x27;ll have Microsoft specific developers and organizations who are locked in beyond rescue.Don’t need to give it a decade, you can find plenty now, or two decades ago. It’s not like Microsoft is a new entrant to the IDE market with VSCode or GiHub Codespaces (hint: the VS part of VSCode).

For me, the real appeal is to be able to share dev environments easily and make software development truly remote friendly.In the end, it will come down to latency, usability and pricing. I do agree with you though - I&#x27;m not paying $2K+ for a macbook pro and then pay to run VSCode in the cloud -- something doesn&#x27;t add up.

&gt; We&#x27;ll get to a point where new developers won&#x27;t even know how to set up a local development environment.I think we&#x27;re already there. I think system administration is the current biggest stumbling block that new programmers have. Tools like repl.it, google colab, etc. remove these (stumbling blocks | learning opportunities).At many universities, a lot of code is now written in online editors that compile, run, and check against public and hidden unit tests (sort of like codewars but lower quality).I personally love learning systems administration but there is very real demand for services that abstract it all away.That said, you enumerated an effective roadmap for this kind of transition. I suspect it will generate an increased annual cost similar in magnitude to the Office 365 migration.

It&#x27;s going to be ALL developers getting locked in. You&#x27;re seeing a 5-10 year plan in action here.1. Create a popular, locally run dev editor.2. Shift it to the cloud.3. Build all new features into the cloud version only.4. Ignore the locally run version until it&#x27;s obsolete.5. Developers rent the cloud version forever.The GitHub integration is going to be amazing for Microsoft because the allure of clicking a button and getting an instant development environment will be huge. Watch for a big campaign where popular frameworks start providing &quot;Launch in Codespaces&quot; or similar buttons.We&#x27;ll get to a point where new developers won&#x27;t even know how to set up a local development environment. I&#x27;d bet a lot that Microsoft is envisioning a world where developers pay $1000+ per year for a combination of GitHub, Codespaces, Actions, Pipelines, etc..The idea of paying cloud compute rates for things like build agents is crazy to me, but here we are.

So.. let&#x27;s say I host my source code with MS (GitHub), I develop using their web ide (visual studio code space) and then I deploy to their cloud (azure).Give it a decade and you&#x27;ll have Microsoft specific developers and organizations who are locked in beyond rescue.It&#x27;s always a fragmentation vs defragmentation battle.

The Visual Studio Codespaces have coverage of using your own server at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;online&#x2F;how-to&#x2F;self-hosting-vscode" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;online&#x2F;how-to&#x2F;...</a>.

It used to be called Visual Studio Online (it was renamed to this) and you could indeed run it on your server, so I&#x27;m assuming that&#x27;s not going to change.No clue about GitLab integration. I don&#x27;t see myself using a browser tab instead of an app to write code, and the app does have GitLab plugins, so I&#x27;m gonna go with probably.

I don&#x27;t think VS&#x2F;GH Codespaces are open-source, and they don&#x27;t seem to support GitLab.However, if you do need something based on open-source that works with GitLab, take a look at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io</a>You can even self-host it: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;gitpod-self-hosted-0.4.0&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gitpod.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;gitpod-self-hosted-0.4.0&#x2F;</a>

Is this built on top of open source technology? Say, can I integrate it into a gitlab instance, or host it on my own server?

At first glance this seems great for me. I was a big fan of Cloud9 before they were purchased by Amazon.I was new to dev world and had never touched AWS so the transition to AWS C9 left me bewildered and I just gave up on it.This seems like this would fill that role for me pretty well.Bonus points - I currently use Visual Studio Code as my goto tool.

So seems like GitHub is in the shape of VS Code now. Good job Microsoft. Atom is not your child anymore.

Small bug in the signup page, if you select and then deselect &quot;Other&quot;, it still stores the selected state and doesn&#x27;t let you send the form [0][0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;tNAzrFw.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;tNAzrFw.png</a>

I was expecting this years ago when GitHub started work on Atom.  This will be quite useful for people who are willing to participate in the Microsoft ecosystem.

So how would this differ from CodeSandbox or StackBlitz?

Considering the desktop install is an Electron app I wouldn&#x27;t think the two would diverge that much.

Let&#x27;s just hope they don&#x27;t only maintain this online editor and deprecate the desktop install.

I don&#x27;t think anyone would suggest this a full time replacement for your dev environment and IDE

There is preview pricing available for VS Code Spaces, which is almost the same thing. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;azure.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;details&#x2F;visual-studio-online&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;azure.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;details&#x2F;visual-stu...</a>The estimated cost for a full time developer to use the system is $23.30&#x2F;month or roughly $280 a year. That&#x27;s quite competitive- my &quot;portable&quot; workstation costs north of $2k and has a 3 year life span, so the &quot;yearly&quot; cost is $666. The benefits of being able to get use cheaper dev terminals in the general case could pay for itself, even before you get to the benefits of having a common environment.Also, you can self host for free. 50% is an over estimate (I&#x27;ve never seen 50% of developers agree to ANYTHING), but broad adoption looks highly likely.

MS may indeed be willing to take a &quot;huge loss&quot; on this. It may dwarf the added revenue from other sources.So like I don&#x27;t know your particular context but I imagine MS&#x27;s moves would seem surprising for developers, say, at startups. Whereas if you work at an IT adjoint to a mechanical contractor it might make more sense. What&#x27;s at stake is that MS might be ramping up to some bigger announcement, &quot;GitHub Cloud&quot; or so, where you pay some fee for the cloud hosting and the sales pitch is, &quot;imagine that you can fix a bug from a bug report in a non-crappy editor like VS Code, do a quick code review and push a button which will run your tests, canary deploy, then version it and push it live -- we take care of all that infra, you just pay for the Azure hosting.&quot; If you give half of that for free to everybody, you nominally &quot;lose&quot; but you increase the adoption rate of a separate revenue machine, which makes up for it.A similar strategy was used by Microsoft to make their initial profits with Windows. There it was &quot;you don&#x27;t have to worry about the hardware specs -- we have already worked all of those out and all of them work with Windows.&quot; The key point in both is to say, &quot;what are people seeking out, at the same time as they are seeking out my product?&quot; and then to either give people a lot of freedom or a really easy option. You would rather take one pill that is carefully engineered to have the right omega-3 balance to stave off depression AND is a good probiotic AND has all of your daily vitamins, than to have to bother with a separate fish oil pill and probiotic and multivitamin. Focusing on product &quot;complements&quot; is often a really good strategy.

&gt; if not the bestThem&#x27;s fightin&#x27; words. But on a more serious note, I think 50% is a massive overestimation. We haven&#x27;t seen pricing. Unless MS is willing to take a huge loss on this there&#x27;s no way it will be free. We all know the resources required to run a modern web app in development mode. I can certainly see this being useful if you happen to be away from your dev machine, or if you just want to contribute to something without setting up the whole environment, but not as a full-time solution. Especially considering github is known to have outages. You&#x27;ll really be SOL then.

The issue with PyCharm is that it’s actually quite hard to extend due to lack of proper documentation for their plugins.I love it but I sometimes think of something that contains less features while is easier to develop for would be a better choice.

Even for C# VSCode is way less useful than VisualStudio, which also has a free version (though doesn&#x27;t run on Linux)

I&#x27;ve found I love JetBrains IDEs when I&#x27;m operating as a one-language power-user.  But the last few years I find myself needing to use 2-3 languages in the same day (several more if you include markup &quot;languages&quot;).  VSCode has become my editor of choice for local dev and vim for remote dev&#x2F;debug.

I pay for the full JetBrains subscription. While I still use vscode for typescript and rust, I use JetBrains for anything else. It&#x27;s one of those no brainer purchases that pays for itself within a month.Programmers create enormous value. If you can get even small single digit percentage improvements by leveraging better tooling, it pays for itself almost right away.I estimate conservatively I produce $500,000 in value a year. If I can eke out a 1% improvement in productivity that&#x27;s worth $5000 a year.I think it&#x27;s a big blind spot that developers don&#x27;t invest enough in.

I&#x27;ve been using VS Code&#x27;s Go and Python plugins for development for the last 2 years and I&#x27;ve never had any major issues. In fact, my experience continues to get better after every release.With the Go language server kicking off, Go development in VS Code is literally a breeze. Every single thing I&#x27;d want to do (format code, imports, run tests, run a particular test, debug a test, breakpoints, on and on) has been integrated into the VS Code plugin and it works pretty much seamlessly. I haven&#x27;t used Goland since it&#x27;s early release in 2016 or so, so I might be missing out on something, but it doesn&#x27;t feel like it.I&#x27;ve never had a good experience with PyCharm. Again might be because I&#x27;ve using earlier releases and things have gotten better. But I&#x27;m at a point where I&#x27;m too comfortable with VS Code and have customized it to a point where I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s worth it for me to switch to another editor, especially one that is tied to a particular language.

I think VSCode sets a really good level across all languages (even more esoteric ones like Idris) however it can&#x27;t compete with IDEs essentially dedicated to a tech stack like PyCharm or Visual Studio.

Yup, VSCode isn&#x27;t comparable to IntelliJ or the rest at all for anything other than Typescript. IntelliJ offers a bunch of life saving refactorings. Want to extract a new method? Ctrl+Alt+M. The exact same shortcut works in every language, with almost the same semantics as much as possible. Intellij can do context aware autocompletion (Ctrl+Shift+Space).I use vscode for lightweight file editing. But for any long term project, it doesn&#x27;t offer anything over Jetbrains products.

Just an anecdote from a sample size of one - I had a recent situation where I had to nagivate and edit a code base that was a mix of Go, C++, and JS. And I had a paid IntelliJ Ultimate license. Long story short, VSCode did the best&#x2F;fastest go-to-defintion like navigation given the constraints. IntelliJ separating Clion to a separate install is rather unfortunate. I can edit Java and Go together, but not C++

I used to use rubymine a few years ago and maybe I just wasn&#x27;t using it right but I can do all the stuff in rubymine in vs code. The only thing I&#x27;m missing is being able to look through the code for gems.

While VS Code is definitely good in general, and first choice for languages like JavaScript, I find it really hard to compare it to JetBrains PyCharm and GoLand (understanding GoLand has no free version).The debugging and refactoring experiences for Go and Python in VSCode feel slow, awkward to set up and configure and just generally tacked-on.I have gotten the PyCharm professional and GoLand licensed through my employer but I will 100% be paying for them out of my own pocket if I ever lose that.

&gt; If I&#x27;m not the customer, then I&#x27;m the product.This isn&#x27;t always true, so it&#x27;s best to look at it on a case by case basis. One wouldn&#x27;t suggest that Typescript coders are a product of MS.So far, they don&#x27;t seem to be treating vscode users like the product. I think they&#x27;re are building out great free tooling to entice users to use their other paid services like Azure.

&gt; If I&#x27;m not the customer, then I&#x27;m the product.This is not necessarily always the case, for example the free thing might be a loss leader, exist to boost secondary or tertiary effects or otherwise exist for non-profit motivated reasons.

I doubt codespaces will be free- this is how VS Code starts seeing increased monetization. It&#x27;ll be interesting to see if the self hosted codespace options are no-cost as well.

Even if you&#x27;re the customer, 99.9% of the time, you&#x27;re also the product.

Do you avoid public drinking fountains? (Covid-19 aside)

&gt; If I&#x27;m not the customer, then I&#x27;m the product.I&#x27;m not sure what you mean by this, care to expand? Aren&#x27;t you also the product for JetBrains, since you&#x27;re one of the customers that&#x27;s keeping them afloat?

Well, you must then love Oracle. I mean, what you are saying is just silly. Of course the producers of FOSS want something in return, but sometimes it&#x27;s not nefarious as you might imagine it to be.It could be a strategical investment to create an ecosystem out of technology that you know the best and can influence its direction, to then sell customizations and develop services on top of it. Like MS is doing here. Or RedHat. Or Google with Kubernetes. Or Canonical with Ubuntu. And so on.

Github has made their pricing model and the motivations for it pretty clear. They subsidize their hosted service with enterprise self-hosted pricing to justify expanding their feature set. This has been true for a long time, well before the MS acquisition. The things that have changed are:- Developments that were in place were released.- The subsidization model made pricing structure changes possible.None of this has to be a big conspiracy or a big change from Microsoft&#x27;s acquisition. It&#x27;s possible they just have a business model that&#x27;s less nefarious than you&#x27;re able or willing to understand.

Free is a huge minus in my book. If I&#x27;m not the customer, then I&#x27;m the product. I&#x27;ll happily keep paying for my JetBrains all-product license: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jetbrains.com&#x2F;all&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jetbrains.com&#x2F;all&#x2F;</a>

This is pretty epic. VS Code has proven itself to be one of the best (if not the best) and feature-complete editor out there. It&#x27;s basically an IDE of a ton of languages at this point, and it&#x27;s completely free. Integrating it with GH is a no-brainer move from Microsoft&#x27;s standpoint, to increase market share even further with more seamless integration.If they&#x27;re able to do setup for Python, Go, Ruby, and JavaScript projects, I suspect that&#x27;ll be &gt; 50% of all professional work (both FOSS and private) done on GH.

We do!<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;online&#x2F;how-to&#x2F;self-hosting-vscode" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;visualstudio&#x2F;online&#x2F;how-to&#x2F;...</a>(I work on Azure but not on this product)

Where do you think these VMs are hosted? :)I hope they allow BYO-remote backend for compliance reasons. This feature seems amazing but I cannot use it.

The more Microsoft move from Azure to GitHub the better

Very nice and much needed.What worries me is the consolidation of great resources in the hands of one party. We know from our collective experience since forever that concentration of any resource does not give us resilience.Your thoughts?

I&#x27;ve spent the last two weeks working on provisioning scripts to make that possible for enterprise products. It&#x27;s hell.

From my experience (in the UK) companies either don&#x27;t care about your environment assuming you set it up, or they just give you a preconfigured laptop (or workstation)

Idk, I feel like we&#x27;ve been trained to believe this is necessary. Why you should need to know more about a dependency than its documented API? This sort of reminds me of Americans believing their current healthcare situation is the only way to do it even though it&#x27;s awful.

The only time I could see myself using this is in the following scenario;1. Browsing repos.2. See a quick fix I could make (like a typo)3. Open up the code space view, make the change, add and commit it.For my daily needs I would never replace an online IDE with my local IDE. I see no value in doing that. My concern would be for when github has a service outage. I am without my IDE until they resolve the issue? With a local IDE I can just continue to work on my branch and push it when GH comes back online.

I&#x27;d like to be able to contribute to Firefox or Brave, but there&#x27;s no way I&#x27;m going through with the setup.If I could just do some small stuff, maybe write some unit tests, that would be fine.

I contribute to various OSS (and private) projects all time just by using the GitHub code editor and catching errors or regressions if any in the CI. Having a fully fledged dev environment is even better.

Most of the time when I contribute to a GH project it works like this: I use the product, discover a bug, search on their GH, don’t find it, file a new bug report, clone the source fix the bug, submit PR, never commit to the same project again.The threshold for doing that sort of minor work can be lowered a lot by this.

I&#x27;m not sure if this is really true. Why would you want to become a contributor to an OSS project if you can&#x27;t bother to get it working on your machine? You actually learn quite a bit about the project by going through its dependency hell.

Yes, and ( Sadly ) No. I have seen quite a few open source project that refuse to host on Github due to its lock in, proprietary nature.Personally I have no problem with Github, as its advantage far outweigh its disadvantage.

Most developers are pissed at programming on the cloud and want to do core development locally on their laptops, if you will force them to cloud edits that good luck getting developers to work with you.

This is going to be great for open source—Being able to get a fully-configured dev environment at a click of a button greatly lowers the barrier to entry. I&#x27;ve had a few small OS contributions where the time to set up the environment was more than the time I spent programming!I could also see this being popular with engineering teams. No futzing with the new hire&#x27;s computer, just have them open a web browser and they can dive right in!

&gt; I think vscode is on its way to be owned by the GitHub team.God please no, especially if anyone from Atom is involved.I almost didn&#x27;t even try vscode in the first place after atom soured me on electron.

This is great - it basically is signalling how Microsoft is thinking about GitHub. I think vscode is on its way to be owned by the GitHub team.Will the same happen to Azure Devops ?

OT: For those who like to have VS Code&#x27;s features in an super responsive console environment: Check out coc.vim for nvim. It&#x27;s a masterpiece.

I was looking (at the time) for something that would allow me to develop windows applications from a Linux machine.Sadly I&#x27;m still falling short. :&lt;

You&#x27;ve probably seen <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitpod.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitpod.io</a> then, which is kind of a hosted Theia that seems to work well in any browser&#x2F;OS&#x2F;device?

Oh, WOW! I was looking for something just like this recently.I tried setting up Theia (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theia-ide.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theia-ide.org</a>) on windows and it was definitely not ready for major use.I didn&#x27;t find anything else that fit the bill either, I hear something like this exists internally at google though.I&#x27;m not typically a huge fan of Github (I&#x27;m sure that&#x27;s a controversial opinion) but this is definitely something I&#x27;m going to check out.

So much Github marketing spam today, maybe the admins should look into whether they are sending out coordinated upvote instructions to employees?

I just added my user settings and my custom theme via .vsix and everything seems to have worked fine. Not sure how I missed this, thanks Jan!

&gt; Gitpod looked nice but the fact that you can only customize the editor per-repository doesn&#x27;t make sense to me.Gitpod also has user-specific Preferences, and even user-specific VS Code extensions. (Usually customization places have a &quot;Workspace&quot; tab and a &quot;User&quot; tab.)

I was just looking in to setting up &quot;VS Code in the browser&quot; with gitpod, code-server, and Visual Studio Codespaces last weekend. Gitpod looked nice but the fact that you can only customize the editor per-repository doesn&#x27;t make sense to me. Looks like GitHub has solved this by using a `dotfiles` repo. code-server looked decent but I would much rather auth &#x2F; secure the editor through GitHub. I tried to use Visual Studio Codespaces but I find Microsoft&#x27;s account system and Azure&#x27;s interface so infuriating. I&#x27;m really looking forward to this!

It&#x27;s not Monaco, which is a basic text editor, it&#x27;s full VS Code (extensions, terminal, debugging) but in the browser

Is the browser editing powered by Monaco or something else entirely? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;microsoft&#x2F;monaco-editor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;microsoft&#x2F;monaco-editor</a>Both repl.it and codesandbox.io seem to be Monaco based. This seems to have better support for VS Code extensions than what&#x27;s available in Monaco.

Wow this seems pretty sick.Gitlab has a decent web ide, I think this may be github playing catch up, but I&#x27;m hopeful that this competition gets us a better product on both sides.

This is maybe the most relevant threat to the macbook pro product line I&#x27;ve seen in a while. Seems like I could do everything I need on an iPad with this, without Apple having to give me access to a shell in iOS.

It&#x27;s a neat idea and kudos to them for executing on this.  However, it also triggers my spidey sense a bit.  It makes me concerned about a far-flung future in which people who opt-out of the VSCode integration get a sub-optimal experience.  Who knows if it will go this way but it may happen very slowly and without anyone noticing over a period of years.  Corporate strategies often trend this way.

Is there a list of supported languages or environments for this yet?

This is a really good idea, however I think it&#x27;s somewhat marred by the pricing structure: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;azure.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-gb&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;details&#x2F;visual-studio-online&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;azure.microsoft.com&#x2F;en-gb&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;details&#x2F;visual-stu...</a>There should be a free tier as well as monthly options.

in 5 years: &quot;Please take a  break from your coding and  watch this short advertisement&quot;

From Microsoft&#x27;s point of view, it makes sense to merge Visual code with Github, as both are their properties. And it walks into the realm of repl.it and darklang, who are demonstrating people want to shorten the repl loop.But I&#x27;m still wary of Microsoft, and remember them from the 90&#x27;s. Completely dominant and ruthless. Even though it&#x27;s new people now.I can see them embracing open source development workflow, branching to eat up everything that has to do with your development workflow. Once Microsoft wins the ecosystem of open source developer workflow is when they&#x27;ll start to leverage it, using it as lead gen for the lucrative cloud&#x2F;dev ops services.They&#x27;re playing a long game to beat Amazon AWS, and to beat off any new startups with shorter repls.

Monaco has a few rough edges on iPad, but overall it seems to work great with <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitpod.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitpod.io</a> (same editor as VSCode).

According to that bug, this issue has been resolved.

Does this work on iPad?I was under the impression this bug is blocking VSCode and other electron based apps.<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugs.webkit.org&#x2F;show_bug.cgi?id=149054" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugs.webkit.org&#x2F;show_bug.cgi?id=149054</a>

&gt;They wanted to know how much I’d value collaborative editing in VSCode. They’re definitely thinking about it.Thinking about it? I thought this was a feature since 2018...<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.visualstudio.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;2017&#x2F;11&#x2F;15&#x2F;live-share" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;code.visualstudio.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;2017&#x2F;11&#x2F;15&#x2F;live-share</a>

If you&#x27;ve noticed it during the demo, the Live Share extension is preinstalled and logged in with your GitHub account, so you can start a session right away.

I had a short chat with some members of the VSCode python extension team to give feedback on their product. They wanted to know how much I’d value collaborative editing in VSCode. They’re definitely thinking about it.

I remember listening to Nathan Sobo, one of the founders&#x2F;creators of Atom, talking to The Changelog in 2017 about creating Atom and his goal&#x2F;dream to make it a collaborative editor, i.e. Google Docs for code [0]. He didn&#x27;t have a timeline but he had done research into it:&gt; That’s definitely something I wanna do; that’s not really in progress yet. I did a bunch of research in that area, so that I can’t really put a timeline on. I can definitely say that more async style traditional GitHub collaboration will be happening this year. I think there will be a natural outgrowth from that into the real-time stuff.Don&#x27;t know if Sobo or his Atom colleagues do anything with the VS Code people, but hearing about Codespaces made me immediately think about his ideas for cloud editing.(AFAIK the CodeSpaces presentation didn&#x27;t mention collaborative editing in its current feature set)[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;changelog.com&#x2F;podcast&#x2F;241" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;changelog.com&#x2F;podcast&#x2F;241</a>

GitLab has been great for a while and actually had some features before GH.

Sourcehut would like to have a word...<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sr.ht&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sr.ht&#x2F;</a>

Why is that a bad thing? If you found value in Azure and it solved your problem, why is that a negative?

Why? It&#x27;s not like you MUST deploy on Azure

Yup all the free stuff is ultimately to lead us into using and paying for Azure. Need an open source alternative to GitHub.

I see a Marketplace, but not their own payments architecture. I think what would be more likely is better project management built into Github.

Edit: I misunderstood your comment as about Azure generally and not Azure DevOps specifically. I see Azure DevOps as the “full service” version of GitHub’s slightly more “DIY” approach. DevOps can also be customized and sold by partners, consultants, I think. GitHub if anything, might move more to a “consultant network” approach. I think Microsoft is maintaining two district brands for developers, for the time being. I originally wrote:I think there’s a clear benefit to Microsoft for GitHub to internally use Azure, but I think there’s a clear benefit to Microsoft’s developer community, GitHub and the Microsoft Partner ecosystem for GitHub to support AWS and GCP via open source, AWS Marketplace, Docker and anything else that helps ensure GitHub is useful independent of the rest of Microsoft’s services — GitHub being impartial is more important to Microsoft than the extra market share they might — might — get.

I also use Azure DevOps for work and am a recently-former MSFT person. From what I&#x27;ve heard from those still there, most of the new development is going towards Github Actions, which is also reflected in their staffing movements. However with GHA running on top of ADO pipeline infrastructure (public info), Microsoft&#x27;s success with the strategic slow burn as OP called it, and their super-long-term-support reputation, it&#x27;s probably not in their interest to rush the move. I&#x27;d be willing to bet that in a year+ or so the writing on the public wall becomes much clearer. To that extent, we&#x27;ve started planning a migration at my company.

The corporate direction could be based on pricing. Azure DevOps (pay per concurrent job) can be a lot cheaper than Github Actions (pay per minute of CI time, with macOS minutes counting as 10 minutes each).

the end game is the developer gig economy. you assign a ticket to yourself, write the code while they analyse your behavior to calculate your hourly rate then you get paid

As someone how really like github and really dislikes azure devops - and a corporate direction pushing us from the former to the later - any idea what their endgame is as these two converge?

&gt; Don&#x27;t forget about VSCode! It&#x27;s very quickly becoming one of the best free editors out thereI don&#x27;t know if people realize just how much market share VS Code has grabbed. It went from 7% to 50% in five years, according some some surveys [1]. Microsoft is quietly dominating this part of the stack. [2][1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.welcometothejungle.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;articles&#x2F;vs-code-javascript" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.welcometothejungle.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;articles&#x2F;vs-code-javas...</a>[2]: This is not an invitation to debate the merits of VS Code or tell me which editor you use, just an observation of growth

Github CodeSpaces is explicitly VS Code. Their tagline is &quot;Get the full Visual Studio Code experience without leaving GitHub.&quot;

&gt;I&#x27;m actually curious, will this be using Atom, it&#x27;s own thing, or VS Code as the editor backend?Isn&#x27;t it obvious? VS Code.

&gt; replacing Sublime, Atom and the restRegarding Atom, I&#x27;ve heard some whispers around the internet that they may slowly wind it down in favor of VSCode so that Microsoft doesn&#x27;t have two competing text editors. Anyone know how true that might be?

Don&#x27;t forget about VSCode! It&#x27;s very quickly becoming one of the best free editors out there, replacing Sublime, Atom and the rest. I&#x27;m actually curious, will this be using Atom, it&#x27;s own thing, or VS Code as the editor backend?I have actually been running code-server [0] which finally allows me to have my powerful editor with all my settings and extensions and working with my own files on any device.[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cdr&#x2F;code-server" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cdr&#x2F;code-server</a>

We&#x27;re not even porting GitHub to Azure. Our tooling is completely platform agnostic, and MSFT Actions facilitating deployment to Azure are built in the same platform and open sourced the same way that AWS, GCP and everyone else are offering theirs.GitHub isn&#x27;t driving anyone to Azure Devops, we&#x27;d prefer folks to migrate from AzDO to GitHub. The focus of much of our work is building out the GitHub platform to meet and fairly quickly exceed the capabilities of AzDO (or any other platform for that matter) in every respect

Microsoft is really the best at the slow strategic burn.* You host your project in github* You fund your project using github sponsors* You develop your project using github codespaces* You compile, test and deploy using github actions* You cloud host on azureEach individual feature is definitely great. I&#x27;m not trying to be critical of Microsoft trying to turn their investment in github into a profitable business. This is a kind of vertical integration that is guaranteed to lead to some efficiencies.One prediction based on this stack is the next piece could be some sort of subscription payment architecture. I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised to see some kind of Microsoft Marketplace integration coming, but maybe branded under github. Some kind of SaaS subscription enabler.